...a real classic Maserati! | Page 15 | FerrariChat

...a real classic Maserati!

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by wbaeumer, Feb 2, 2008.

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  1. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
    8,986
    #351 wbaeumer, Aug 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Don,
    the car was delivered with this brake-specification on special request from Toulo de Graffenried, the 1st owner of the car!
    Unfortunately the car got a totally wrong color in the US some years ago.

    It was the Geneva-Show-car in 1956. I have many photos of the car in my archive from this event and with later owners.

    Ciao!
    Walter
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  2. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2006
    621
    bicoastal USA
    #352 ColdWater, Aug 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Walter,

    The sales papers to de Graffenried posted on Anamera are attached here. I don't see anything about disc brakes. Perhaps he had them fitted later, after experiencing them in competition.

    Perhaps you can see from subsequent photos when they appear through the wire wheels, as the car appears to have had drums at the Geneva show.

    Best,
    Don
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  3. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    Don,
    the car came back from Geneva to the Factory, was completed and sold to De Graffenried. I assume he let the car later converted to disc-brakes. If this was done by the Factory or by someone else is unknown.

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  4. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn F1 Rookie
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    May 15, 2003
    4,133
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    Boudewijn Berkhoff
    #354 Boudewijn, Aug 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
    8,986
    I think its s/n 2170, now in Australia.

    About s/n 2115: I never saw the car but heared from a reliable source that the car was not good restored in the US!

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  6. Wolf

    Wolf Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2003
    500
    I am the owner of #2115. Interesting to read the assessment of the car´s condition by people who have not seen it. The car was restored by John Bookout in 1998 and took part in a few concourses.

    The condition of the car is fine, but since time takes toll of us all: the paintwork should be freshend up and this opportunity should be taken to paint the car in the original "grigio". I am thinking of having this done during winter. Painting an Allemano requires the total dismanteling of the car (if it is done properly) since many parts inside the passsenger cabin are painted too.

    As to the disk brakes being installed by the factory: there is no proof for it. I have a letter from Cozza saying that the car came back to the factory after the Geneva show, was completed (sic!) and then sold to Graffenried.

    Regards

    Wolfi
     
  7. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2006
    621
    bicoastal USA
    Thank you indeed for posting. It was a pleasure viewing your exceptionally good presentation of the car on Anamera. I had the great pleasure of visiting Mr Bookout's collection a few months ago. It would be difficult to imagine a better provenance for the restoration. Perhaps 'grigio' would be more correct, but IMO the present color is quite complimentary.

    It might well be said that Maseratis of this era are never 'completed'.

    Don
     
  8. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    #358 wbaeumer, Nov 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi falks from this section!

    Found this pic today in an old French magazine.

    Any ideas about the VIN of the car?

    Interesting is the big radiator grill! Anybody? Don?

    Ciao!
    Walter
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  9. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2006
    621
    bicoastal USA
    #359 ColdWater, Nov 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Walter,

    I think this is the early "Extra Lusso" prototype that appeared at the October 1947 Paris Salon. Perhaps your magazine can confirm ?

    Here is another photo of what is almost certainly the same car, but unfortunately I have no credits or other information about the photo.

    On this photo the Pinin Farina badge is clear. The only other car I know with a grill of such relatively wide proportions is #052, but that is the sole Zagato-bodied example.

    Perhaps one of the mythical first cars #049, 050 or 051 ?

    Assume you saw that Gooding will offer A6G/54 Allemano #2117 at Scottsdale in January.

    Best,

    Don
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  10. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    #360 wbaeumer, Nov 5, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2009
    Hi Don,
    thanks for the pic. Yep, obviously the very same car (look to the front-bumper). It must have been one of the earlier cars as the pic in the French mag appeared in 1947. So I believe that this is propably #052, which was later rebodied by Zagato (#049 was delivered earlier to South America).

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  11. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
    8,986

    Hi Don,
    interesting car! I believe it was #2117 that was the car Moss used for his trip from Modena to Bari where he won the race in his 300S #3059 (although someone in Holland believes it was his car.......!).

    The car had for Bari a very strange 3-digit (!) registration that is not possible to research in our days. I have 2 photos of it taken prior to the race (one with Moss).

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  12. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn F1 Rookie
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  13. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    Boudewijn,
    thanks for those pics.
    Yep, same car. But I never saw it or any other 1500 with this wide front-grill. I am convinced now that this is #052!

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  14. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2006
    621
    bicoastal USA
    Boudewijn, many thanks for the additional photos.

    Walter, I think you are right. Look at the photos of #052 from Nik in posts 206, 256 and 276. It seems that Zagato simply reused the Pinin Farina grill ! This is quite logical given the time, effort and skill needed to make one of these grills (something I have recently investigated in detail). The Zagato car was reportedly not delivered or registered until 1949, more than a year after the Paris show.

    Perhaps another mystery solved on F-Chat !

    Don
     
  15. biz5300

    biz5300 Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2007
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    Germany
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    #365 biz5300, Nov 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
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  16. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2006
    621
    bicoastal USA
    Walter,

    What evidence do you have that a #049 ever existed ? The only cars to South America of which I'm aware are #053 to Argentina (Evita Peron) by 1951, #068 to Argentina in 1951 and #105 to Uruguay in 1950.

    Thanks,
    Don
     
  17. The Red Baron

    The Red Baron Formula 3

    Jan 3, 2005
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    Full Name:
    Warren
    Anyone a pic of #2117
     
  18. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    Yep, it was #2066!

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  19. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    #2113 had a very colorful history! More later.........!

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  20. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    #372 wbaeumer, Nov 6, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Don,
    correct! But they rounded the upper lip of the radiator frame a little at Zagato. Its not exactly the same!

    I believe that this car was used by Maserati in 3 versions then:

    a. as a Spyder with brief competition history in 1946
    b. as a coupe for the Paris Show in 1947
    c. as a one-off coupe by Zagato

    Ciao!
    Walter
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  21. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    #373 wbaeumer, Nov 6, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  22. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    #374 wbaeumer, Nov 6, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Don,
    also #068 came to Argentina!

    I think this is #049 (in Paris also? Or was it in Geneva?)

    Ciao!
    Walter
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  23. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2006
    621
    bicoastal USA
    OK Walter,

    Maybe we can finally make sense of this.

    A list of serial numbers was printed in Maserati Information Exchange in March-April 1981, with a note by a George Cox. The same list can be found on p. 22 of Maserati Road Cars by Crump / de la Rive Box.

    There is no #049 in this list. It shows #051 and #052 during 1946, then #053, #054 and #055 in 1947, #056 through #064 in 1948, etc.

    Based upon the combination of all my references, I believe the following:

    #051 - I think this car had at least two manifestations:
    a) March 1947 Geneva Salon car - a two-window coupe with disappearing headlights, forward-facing sunroof, square portholes
    b) March 1948 Geneva Salon car - disappearing headlights replaced with more conventional arrangement, as shown in post 374 above

    #052 - Probably had three manifestations as shown in post 372 above
    a) competition spider in 1946
    b) October 1947 Paris Salon car - four-window Pinin Farina coupe, no portholes, wide grille
    c) 1948-9 converted to Zagato panoramica coupe

    #053 - effectively a four-window version of #051 with square portholes and tapered tail; several days into the March 1948 Geneva Salon replaced #051 on the stand; then sent to Argentina, now back in Italy

    #054 - Pinin Farina berlinetta sold through Milan dealer Marinotti, exact configuration unknown

    #055 - two-window Pinin Farina coupe similar to #051, extensive early racing history

    #056 - four-window Pinin Farina coupe, probably the first car in what became the typical A6 1500 configuration

    #057 - first long-wheelbase car, the only cabriolet, shown at the September 1948 Torino Salon

    #058 - Pinin Farina berlinetta sold through Milan dealer Marinotti, exact configuration unknown

    #059 - second and last long-wheelbase car, Pinin Farina coupe, now in Japan

    The series thereafter conformed to the typical four-window standard-wheelbase Pinin Farina configuration, although each car was to some extent unique in trim. To my knowledge only #086 was built with just two seats and a rear deck, for example.

    Don
     

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