Valve Guide Re-Post from 2002

Here is an old post about valve guides that I think needs to be re-posted:

1995 Valve Guides…….Fact vs. Fiction

For the most part Ferrarichat has been an immense benefit to me while owning my two Ferraris. However, in the past year or so, I have seen a propensity for people to make claims simply restating what someone else has said but not actually checking to see if the information is correct.

What is particularly alarming to me is the amount of technical information that gets posted on this site that upon further review is totally inaccurate. Even more alarming is that it keeps getting recycled by more and more people and then becomes gospel.

Most of you have probable noticed that I rarely get into technical debates. I am kind of like Tom Cruise in “Days of Thunder”….I just drive the damn thing. I barely know a spark plug from a drain plug and when some of you start talking about volumetric efficiency I am pretty much lost. But some of the posts are so inaccurate that it’s clear to anyone that some of you haven’t a clue what you are talking about.

It’s ok to have an opinion that 360’s are ugly, or that a true Ferrari has 12 cylinders in the front of the car, or that the F50 looks too soft or so on and so on. However some of you, many who don’t even own a Ferrari or the particular car in question, seem to have a propensity to re-inforce totally inaccurate information you have heard from others without even checking to see if it’s valid info.

What am I referring to…………………1995 F355’s and the issue of valve guides.

For the past three years I have seen many posts from people on the issue of valve guides on 1995 355’s. As most of you know I just recently sold my 1995 Challenge, which at one time was a streetcar.

The valve guide issue became a serious issue in selling my car. Some people flat out refused to even consider my car, despite the fact that it had no valve guide problem at all, while others discounted their offers by anything ranging from $2000-$7000 because of this issue.

I had one interested buyer tell me that he was given advice on Ferrarichat not to ever consider a 1995 model year 355 even if records showed the valve guides had been replaced because some dealers have lied about the work being done.

In the end I was able to show several interested parties that my car in fact had no such problem at all. The car had nearly perfect leakdown results (6-8% on cylinders 1-7 and 10% on cylinder 8). I also provided service records from day one (12/94) that showed no excessive oil consumption. A car exhibiting valve guide wear would burn oil and show excessively bad leakdown numbers.

I am absolutely amazed at the overblown hype on this issue and the amount of misinformation some of you spread on the Internet, some who don’t even own a Ferrari. I thought in order to clear some things up I would present my findings on the subject as over the past month I have spent close to 20-30 hours researching the issue speaking to people both within FNA, the factory in Italy and other outside sources. I spoke with everyone, ranging from FNA’s technical director, 4 different crew chiefs on 2 different dealer Challenge teams who ran 355 C’s, to the head of engine design for the 355 at Ferrari SPA in Italy (through an interpreter), as well as the 355 production manager there as well (he spoke English). In addition, a very highly respected Ferrarichat member on this board who worked on several Challenge teams for over 9 years and personally oversaw a few 95 Challenge cars, also confirmed what my findings were.

Myth #1:

All 1995 F355 have valve guide issues and need their original valve guides replaced

Fact:

Completely false. According to FNA technical director Adam Williams, only about 20% of all 95-model year 355’s experienced excessive valve guide wear and needed them replaced. And in fact, about half way through the 1995 model year the factory changed over to a different type of valve guide (the ones that they replaced the old ones with on the early cars).

Myth #2:

Some have stated that since the valve guides were not sintered (formed and hardened by heat and pressure) then accelerated wear will also be seen later.

Fact:

FNA confirmed that this has never ever been an issue. The problem stemmed from improper seating of the guides and if no problem occurred early on then it will not be a problem in the future other than normal wear associated with running the car. PERIOD, END OF STORY!

Myth #3:

Valve guide issues can occur at any time during the life of the car and are more prone to experience these issue in higher mileage cars.

Fact:

According to the Ferrari factory in Italy and re-affirmed by Adam Williams, 90% of the valve guide issue occurred almost immediately or within the first two years of ownership. The few that have occurred in higher mileage cars cannot be confirmed to have happened at a specific point in time and likely could have been present for quite some time. Certainly the older valve guides may wear out faster but they don’t go from being in good shape to wearing out overnight.

Myth #4.

This is only a US problem due to the high sulpha content in our fuel and that Euro cars had different valve guides.

Fact:

Sorry but totally false. It was a small problem on Euro cars as well and the gas issue is inaccurate.

Myth #5:

Valve guide issues were only present on 95 models.

Fact:

Also false. Even with the newer valve guides post 95 production 355’s problems arose. A bad batch of valve guides found it’s way into several 97’s and at least two 98 355’s. Ferrari of Washington alone had two 97’s and one 98 355 that had valve guide issues discovered when each of those cars had higher than normal oil consumption.

Myth #6:

If the valve guides were changed on a 355 by the dealer then there must have been a problem. In other words why would the dealers change them free of cost if there wasn’t a problem.

Fact:

The amount of disinformation being spread in the past few years made it impossible for dealers to move 95 model year 355’s, even ones that had later production dates and didn’t even contain the old style valve guides. FNA finally decided to have all early production 95’s changed over even if there were no problems.

Myth 7:

Only 95 model year cars had any engine problems.

Fact:

I have already mentioned a bad batch of guides in other production year models but in addition some 96 and early 97’s cars had connecting rod failures (issues with the connecting rod bolts). There are also a few 98 specific engine related problems.

It amazes me how much inaccurate information on this issue is repeated by people many of whom, neither own a 355, have any experience with them, or don’t even own a Ferrari or have never worked on them. Because half a dozen people claim something is valid doesn’t make it so. Remember 99.9% of the population at one time believed the earth was flat.

 

Illuminating. Thanks.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Very interesting post, and very informative thanks for posting.
Do you know who wrote it? The validity of any post depends on the author. You will find that a few experts on FC tend to agree to disagree. Some others its there way or no way. Who wrote it?

 

Great repost. I wasn't around when it was 1st posted, so this was an excellent read for me.

Geno

 

Can't wait until Brian and Dave read this post.
I know for fact, that 100% of the 1995 355 engines I've worked on either needed valve guides replaced or already had them done. FNA stating that only 20% of the 1995 cars had a problem is BS.
Asking a car company to tell you "the truth" about potential problems is like asking the cigarette companies to tell you the real dangers of smoking.

The truth comes from independent service providers, who see problems day in and day out and have no stake in the game such as dealers and authorized service facilities.

 

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not this crap again............

 

Bruce, do you mean-
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

For the record.

A: I happen to have one of these cars with bronze valve guides, and it was manufactured in 1995 and sn 103,xxx
B: It still has the original valve guides in it
C: it currently has 58K miles on the clock, and almost 5,000 of these miles have taken place on road race tracks.
D: The engine has about 20 minutes over redline, a second here and there, accumulated over time.
E: It has good compression, good leakdown, and uses no oil
F: After waiting for the oil temp to get up above 140dF I run the poverbial snot out of the car.
G: At the race tracks, the oil temps sees the far side of 280dF, and the car laps within a couple of seconds of the lap record for 3200 pound cars with 400 HP on street tires.

 

Man oh man...that pic perfectly describes my thoughts when I saw that 2002 post resurrected...lol

 

Well....who wrote it??

 

Jon P. Kofod
www.flatoutracing.net

 

Ah Flat out racing, i have heard of them although dont know alot about them, i shall do a forum search. I like to read every ones opinions and i found Jon,p Kofods write up interesting. Just as i like to read people like Mike Sheehans opinions on Ferrari's.
Although there will be forum "experts" along on here who will dismiss them as idiots.
I think its good to read and learn every ones opinions.

 

His information source was FNA and came from a time when Ferrari was still desperately trying to deny there was a problem with not only the valve guides but the headers as well. Most, maybe all of their claims on both subjects made during that period have been proven false in subsequent years. Many have even been admitted to not be true by them in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I have 3 355 motors out as we speak for valve guides and we are not a very big shop.

About once a year someone dredges that tired old post up and the same arguments ensue. It really matters not to me if you choose to believe otherwise. The evidence is in. But then there are those that still choose to believe that Elvis is alive, Michael Jackson was not a pedophile and Niel Armstrong never set foot on the moon.

 

It would help if you said who exactly you were talking about, Jon Kofods or Mike Sheehans.
Being that you chose to capsulate/quote my post in your reply.
EDIT: I see that you have edited your post in the last paragraph, so i assume you are talking about Kofods.

 

I have a 1995 F355 Spider with an Aug./1995 build date. At 28,000 miles, I have NOT had any issues with valve guides or headers. Engine out service was done at 10,500 miles. I use Mobile 1 15w50 oil which is changed evey 6 months.

 

Once again....here is the box that Ferrari received their valve guides in....
Headers were also shipped in a similar box, just larger.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Its amazing how many 355s out there are still having there valve guides done. I mean Rifeldriver has just said he has 3 in his shop, and i remember a few months back reading that he had another two in. Thats 5 in 2-3 months by my reckoning, so how many in a year?
With this in mind, there must be other ferrari mechanics on here experiencing 355s needing valve guide jobs at the same high rate. Clearly this seems to be an on going thing even though the car has stoped being made for 10 years now. How many 355s were made?

 

great post! thanks for reposting this and thanks to the original owner for taking the time to research the various myths. It is very true how anytime something happens with a ferrari it gets blown out of proportion and ruled against all fcars when usually are results of neglect (not talking about headers, valves, shrinkage, stickiness-manufacturer defects).

 

I need to order me some of those Poo Boxes! This is a very angry topic; it's makes me uncomfortable.