Chassis 1C/10S Updated Information

Unfortunately not.

 

Michael,

My terminology may be in error but Ferrari did perform client servicing of cars for their owners. So my real underlying point is questioning if changes and updates that may have been performed by this department were updated to either the original build sheets or kept as part of the files on each serial number.

Was the client side, versus the factory racing team, doing any of the race car support for the private entrants in the earliest days?

Jeff

 

Bill, I got a reply from Michael Muller regarding "Corsa Clienti" records. He has no knowledge. What do you know about this.Aparently Ferrari at some time had such a department with its own library of doccuments. ??? just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Jim I asked Michael about the "Corsa Clienti" doccuments mentioned in Keff Kennedy's post #546. For once he couldn't help me. What do you know. My theory is it was the system set up by Ferrari in the late 1940s to sell cars to private owners like the Bosana brothers, Trosi and others etc who would race them and the factory would undertake the maintaining, race prep, transport etc for them. In anycase I would think access to these doccuments would be quite interesting. Any ideas??? just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

002's Bill of Sale is directly from Ferrari as is it's COA.

Chassiche has whatever records still exist at the Factory.

"Corsa Clienti" no longer has anything to do with older cars.

As Jeff has said a well know Ferrari Historian is asking about this chassis.

I await his thoughts.

 

The fact that I don't know anything about these "Corsa Clienti" documents does of course not mean that I doubt them.
The customer service department was located at Modena in the old SF premises from Alfa Romeo times. I have no idea what exactly their job was, only road car service and repair, or indeed also "corsa clienti" services. The early race car customers like the Besanas, Scuderia Inter, etc. had some kind of "full service contracts" with Ferrari which included not only regular overhauls but also pit service and transport to the events. No idea whether this was done by Modena or by Maranello.

May be this "corsa clienti" information has to do with the fact that Ferrari Classiche now is a part of the actual Corsa Clienti division.

 

What I keep trying to find out is what happened to the information done post-delivery. I have seen build sheets but, at least the ones I have seen, only document the car as it was originally built. What happens/happened to any information on a car that returned for servicing? If updates were made to the car during a visit were these noted either back to the original build sheets or in some sort of file folder for that car's serial number.

The follow up is: If there is some sort of documentation of the work performed during the service visits has this documentation ended up with the files that Classiche accesses?

I would think it likely in at least the privateer racing cars that the factory supported that there would have been some level of updating to later generation parts when something broke.

Michael you raise a good question that needs investigation. Which portion of the Ferrari organization performed the support function/post race servicing on the cars for people like Besanas, Scuderia Inter, etc.

Jeff

 

Getting back to the very specific topic of the mystery car. I have had correspondance with one of the recognized Ferrari experts on this car. He has been busy on other projects but did take the time to make a short reply. I will not publicly divulge his name unless he gives authorization. He is not the one that Napolis refers to in his most recent post.

Jeff


As far as I know, the Motto spyder bodywork shown by jawsalfa somewhere in the thread used to be on 002C when Stan Nowak had that car, around 1968. The bodywork had been placed there by Nocentini, the Florence Ferrari agent after he bought 002C from Luigi de Filippis (who had it from Soave Besana as a spyder corsa) and raced it locally in this guise in 1951 and 1952. Nocentini then sold it to Sam Scher. Nowak who got the Motto rebodied 166 after various owners sold the rolling chassis to Carl Bross. The Motto bodywork, advertised for sale separately in 1970, went to a H. Desormeau who sold it to Ed Williman of Briarcliff Manor (NY) who placed in on 0031S.

 

Interesting www-side fore those who speak some france :

http://www.amis-du-circuit-de-gueux.fr/1948-Coupe-des-Petites-Cylindrees
ciao
C.
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Yes for whatever reason several feel that the car currently stamped 1C/10S is 0031S.

 

John
Is there any possibility that you/your father will be removing the body to fully assess the chassis?
Regards
Will

 

The 020I - 02C thread got me thinking about this one again. I re-read the last few pages.
Nathan, to answer your question/comment in post 549:

"In this instance I have to wonder why Ferrari have kept to the same story since 1964 - for 45 years - if it's not correct."

The simple answer is inertia: without some external 'force' there is nothing to cause change.

I was also thining about a chassis referred to as 001S - is this a valid serial number? If so, what is the history?

Regards,

Art S.

 

Hi Art
Maybe there's no need for change if the information is and was correct. Remember that Ferrari provided the information to Stan Nowak in 1964. Recently they have repeated the same information to a new enquirer.
What 'external force' could cause Ferrari to go back and change their records of more than 60 years? And why?
Nathan

 

Hi (again) Art
001S was a 1948 166S with an Allemano Spider body. It ran in the 1948 Mille Miglia with #178.
Nathan

 

The first two chassis from GILCO weighed 56klg and were used to build 01C and 02C. A lighter chassis was designed at Enzo's request[demand]. At lease one and probably two of these were built.. One went to 002I which still exists as a well restored car. The other probably went to 001 which was later crashed , destroyed and written off. tongascrew

 

001S still exists

 

Please provide more details? Is it with someone that allows detailed investigation and photographs of details (chassis)?

Jeff

 

John,

Your PM mailbox is full. Anything to report on your seach for information. Has our friend JP been able to help?

Jeff

 

Sorry, I have nothing more to offer. There was a wheel shot on targapedia in color but the archive has since been removed which is a real shame since it probably had about 500 ferrari images.

 

I know in F C Bill Noon states that this car still survives. The history I have of this car is fairly clear until the Giro Sicilia of 1951. The car was not driven by La Motta but by the team of Ttrmanto/Cardilla to third place.La Mooa was not killed in this car but in an Alfa in this event. The car had been sold by La Motta to Malide Grasso of Palermo on 7/29/1950 and registered on plates PA 19181. On 10/3 /51 Grasso sold the car to Silvia Cammarate of Palermo who on 7/1/53 sold the car to Salvatore De Cantarella of Catania to be paid in installments.. New plates were instslled 5/9/54 CT 54577. 5/18/1959 last installment paid. Some time after this the car was crashed and destroyed and so the story goes all that remained were the red Rudge disc knockoff wheels. There is a picture of a red custom barchetta with plated 213329 GE with what could be these wheels. As far as I know this is a far as the story of 001 goes. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

I think you mean someone else unless I made a mistake. I am not aware of any details or the existence of 001S. Hope I did not mislead anyone by suggesting otherwise or making a typo somewhere.

Cheers,

Bill

 

Out of curiosity, what are the chances that the guy that stamped the 01S chassis was dyslexic and stamped it 10S instead (or alternately, it was stamped 1 S and someone added a 0?)?

If this chassis was 01S (001S), this would explain the 1 stamped on the frame where Jim's is and Bill's comments of the frame design.

Regards,

Art S.

 

The "10S" is stamped far to the rear on the top of the left frame rail visible looking down into the engine compartment almost where the engine ends and gearbox is mounted. A little different than any other Ferrari I am aware of and certainly nothing in the area like the other early Ferrari stampings I have inspected and photographed. About a foot or so forward of this area is where normal Ferrari Chassis stamps can be found for most early 1950s era 166Inter/Exports.

The "10S" is a clean and deep stamp done in a traditional period method wherein the area to be stamped is slightly peened down before stamping the numbers.

The "1C" on the "10S" car is an overly large font. It is not even close to where Jim's car is stamped. Jim's car is stamped on the original oval section of the front frame. The "1C" stamp on the "10S" car is stamped on the top of a flat "Box" section of the front frame of the car and in the reverse direction of normal viewing as if stamped by someone looking into the engine compartment from in front of the radiator area as if the car where already assembled.

It is my opinion that the "10S" stamping is a period correct stamping and one done when the frame was new and unassembled.

The "1C" stamping looks clearly to me at least as if it was done after the car was already assembled and stamped by someone looking into the engine compartment rather than by someone who was standing where the engine would go and striking a bare, unassembled frame.

Just my opinion... but in this case... one I am sticking with.

 

Bill
How come you don't discuss the '1' stamp uncovered in the correct position on the front cross-member in the presence of a local judge?
I am mystified that this hasn't caused more interest.

Regards
Will