Update - Campos Meta's Dallara signed off by FIA

I didn't know Dallara developed the car for them. That explains a lot, these guys aren't only around since yesterday and know what they're doing.

 

Amazing what a REAL team can do!

 

Well, in fairness, Campos themselves haven't really done anything yet! - Dallara have been around for a long time as Florian noted - They even ran as "themselves" in the WC for a few years around 1990 - They even scored a few points IIRC.

Whatever happened to the "rule" that you had to build your own car in F1? Another piece of "flexibility" in the rule book I guess.....

Cheers,
Ian

 

Ian, I rather think that rule applies to other teams competing in F1, not to outside companies who provide their services.

 

Understood - Otherwise they'd have to make *everything*..... However, I thought there was a "rule" (FWIW!) that said the entrant had to construct their own chassis - Wasn't it this rule that pissed off Sir Frank WRT Red Bull/Torro Rosso? - TR have to do their own chassis next year IIRC?..... Or maybe it's just that "Red Bull Technology" can only supply chassis to one team?

No matter, it looks like they'll be on the grid, and that's gotta be good - Even if they are at the back.....

 

I think it's the latter. For example, if a team that doesn't have a car yet *cough cough* went to Dallara and wanted to buy the chassis, they'd get into trouble with the rules, even if they didn't have any association with Manor - that's my interpretation.

 

Ian:

I looked this up relative to USF1 "buying" a chassis. What I found is in post #12. Ugh.
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=264156

 

Indeed, Dallara is extremely experienced. In addition to recent F1 experience they've done many many other moncoque style single seaters as well as prototypes.

The intention is that every team is a constructor. Hence STR's recent hirings...

They must now build their own car instead of buying it like RBR does from Red Bull Technology. Campos is still technically a constructor. Just like no teams make their own brakes and most have things manufactured out of house (like pistons for example), Dallara is just hired on a consultant basis.

Many teams have similar set-ups with aero companies. For example, a well known F1 team has an aero staff in addition to many 'full time consultants' that work in the team's factory but are still technically employed by their CFD company.

 

+1

This is how it is done. Get your crash tests out of the way and then continue on the fine tuning and build up of the car so it can be ready for the testing session in February.

Only a fool or somebody with a deceptive mind would state that the car will be ready for testing and the crash tests all in one package in February.

 

Understood - But the key point is they can't also supply a chassis to anybody else - I have no problem with "sub-contractors", but in this case they should be exclusive - It's still the "world constructors championship" after all

Cheers,
Ian

 

Which is why the aero company who did the Force India car got into trouble as they now are doing one of the newbie teams.

I have no problem with subcontracting, but it can't be the same car for 2 teams.

 

Of course, but Dallara does not supply anything to any of the other teams so I do not see a problem.

 

+1

I have no problem with a "windtunnel for hire", including the "sub-contractor" engineers to run it, but they better not share my data with anyone else!.....

Brembo, PW's beloved "Carbon Industries" and one I can't recall right now aren't sharing data.....

OTOH, Brembo, CI, Ferrari, Merc, et al "sub-contract" their wares.... Where do you draw the line? Obviously not at the "engine", but you've got to do your own chassis IMHO.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Agreed - No argument from me.

OTOH, RBT supplied both RBR and STR last year......

A few years back, Honda supplied Super Aguri.....

Gotta love F1

 

The old adage is never engineer something you can buy. Like I had mentioned, many things are designed by teams but manufactured elsewhere. In the case of pistons I believe just two or three places manufacture pistons for the entire grid. That doesn't mean everyone is using the same thing.

In the case of brakes, everyone uses Hitco/Brembo/Carbon Industries but that doesn't mean that all the brakes from one company are necessarily the same. Similarly, back when there was a tire war, Bridgestone may have supplied 5 times but a soft tire for team a was different than a soft tire for team b.

Engines are different. They have be a supplied quantity for ages and are for all intensive purposes the same from one customer team to another. There was a time when nearly every team used a DFV.

A bit off topic now, but if you really want to complicate things, look at supercars. The ATR group built the tubs for both the Enzo and the Carrera GT. That doesn't make them same, just means they're building to a design supplied by the manufacture.

 

I think that the crux of the problem hinges on the expression 'intellectual properties'.

There was a blatant similarity between the Red Bull chassis and the Toro Roso chassis, which Frank Williams objected to: it was just a disguised copy of Newey's design! In other word, a transfert of intellectual properties.

Campos can be considered a 'constructor' if it own the design of his Dallara-designed chassis. Dallara could be considered as just a sub-contractor, working for Campos.
I am sure Campos checked the validity of the deal first!!

 

There has not been an attempt to disguise the fact that STR and RBR run the same car. Both take their design from a third party company, Red Bull Technologies, to get around the constructor rule. However for the upcoming season customer cars are gone and STR is becoming a full constructor in its own right. This is the reason for the great amount of hiring that has been underway there. This means Red Bull will have to finance two teams entirely, and while their entire budget is dedicated towards marketing, that's not cheap.

STR has been for sale for the past couple years for $1. The only requirement is that the team be kept in Farenza for three years.

 

o.o i got a tenner in my pocket right now, what about ElChiva GP for 2011?

now seriously, what the new (starting in 2010) FIA rule means is that no team can DESIGN cars for 2 different team entries, under penalty of ML and Ferrari owning the grid.

Hence STR having to hire designers to draw their own monocoque. It worked cheaper for them to hire a few more people and let them play with an "old" RBR design than to start from scratch.

I think campos GP were quite clever with their entry for the 2010 season, they just hired an outside company to do the work in designing and building it for them... stablished teams dont need to do that, for a new team this is the beachead they need. At the end of the day they are building their own factory @ Murcia.

As for manor GP ... CDF? please i see you in February...

Anyone remember the split rear wing proposal for 2010? yes the one supposed to push overtaking to the n-power? the idea paid for with FIA money? yes that one that got demolished after 10 minutes in a real windtunnel?

Yep the same guy designing the ManorGP car did that spending FIA's money on the same PC he is using now to design his new car... God help him, cos Eolo won't