Experience with carbon ceramic brakes?

Does anyone have any personal experience using the Ferrari factory carbon ceramic brakes for heavy track use?

 

I have used the CCB on the Scuderia at Palm Beach International Raceway under heavy race hot laps. I am impressed. Do you have any specific questions?

 

They are every bit as important as air jacks!

 

lol

 

How many track weekends can you get from a set of rotors? (assuming you are lapping at speeds appropriate for top level advanced students or instructors) How many from a set of pads? Has anyone had an abrupt/catastrophic failure of a rotor from overheating or delamination (similar to some PCCB rotor failures on Porsches)? Cost of replacement rotors? Cost of replacement pads?

 

Rotors can last a couple of years, if you consistently replace the pads before they are half-used.
A two-day at WGI back in September on new pads, and I had to replace them after the event. A pair of front pads (they go really fast, the rears hold up much longer): $1,700/pair with labor at a Ferrari dealership.

I had a fun adventure at PBIR, back in March, when the right front pad delaminated and I drove two laps on a naked rotor. Fun. I have it on video. You can hear the horrible screeching, but I did not hear it with the helmet on. Replacement of the front rotors plus pads: $17k.

I suspect the delamination happened b/c Ferrari of Ft. Lauderdale screwed up the installation, since the pads were pretty much new.

One more thing, I do around 20-30 track days a year.

 

OK, sounds very comparable to my Porsche experience. Thanks!

 

RBM - my experience mirrors that of krzysztof. I guess I'd criticize Ferrari if they didn't offer CCBs, but on a track or race car I'm convinced they are more a marketing gimmick than a competitive advantage - like the 430C's air jacks, which serve the valuable function of ... adding weight. I've dealt with CCBs on a Stradale and a prior 430C, and plan to convert to steel on my current 430C. Good luck, Will

Edit - on a street car, CCBs look cooler and are cleaner than the alternative, so I'm all for them off the track.

 

look cool? that's a marketing gimmick as well. $20,000 jewelry for your car.

don't get me wrong, i like them, but they are definitely a gimmick no matter the use.

 

"that's a marketing gimmick as well"


No, my friend, that's not a marketing gimmick - that's a lifestyle.

 

Well they're standard now, so at least that spares you the dilemma

 

Well my experience relates to track events, one 430 spider with CCB did over around 200 hard laps of our tight circuit in the space of 2 years and there were no brake issues, pads were fine, rotors were fine.

Towards the end of ownership there was some slight squeal when but pads were still fine.

CCB vs steel, in my opinion there is no contest.

 

Check this previous thread.

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225363&highlight=ccm+brake+life

CCM brake does not last nearly as long as people think under racing conditions. One set of rotors and 2 sets of pads in just 2 race weekends on 430 Challenge with slicks is too rich for my blood. I have switched to GT3 spec Brembo steel brakes with equal or better performance. The cost savings on consumables over one race season has already paid for the conversion.

 

What was the conversion charge and where was it done please...

 

My own team mechanics did it at local F dealer's workshop as part of our GT3 conversion at beginning of the race season.

If I recall correctly parts totaled about $20,000 and that's using proper Brembo racing parts.

Compare that to one set of CCM rotors and pads costing $21,000 after discount.

 

About 3 months ago in California a rotor on a Scuderia exploded at 170 mph. I know Roland Linder was driving the car. I believe it happened during one of those driving events where the students are trying to reach 200 mph.

 

can't be. $20k for iron rotor conversion is not reasonable. parts are less than $5000.

 

Brembo racing calipers + rotors + hats + mounts + pads for less than $5,000? You have got to be joking.

 

He's not too far off; $6500 if you don't change the calipers: (which work fine)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-430-Challenge-Steel-Brake-Disc-Pad-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3357f2980bQQitemZ220518848523QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

If you want the bigger kit, $9900 with calipers that can be rebuilt:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-430-Challenge-Steel-Brake-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3357f29b4eQQitemZ220518849358QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Mark

 

Yes, I am aware Brembo street car Gran Tourismo big brake kits are much cheaper. I have those kits on my 550, but my comment was for Brembo "racing" components we used in our GT3 spec conversion of our 430C. Brembo racing and Brembo street components are entirely different grades of products not just in price but in performance and quality.

I would never put street brake kits on a race car. No brakes at over 230kph is not something I like to experience more than once in a life time.

 

I have no experience with CCM brakes, but have done a few big brake upgrades. It is very light, costs a ton and is not magic, it still must obey the laws of thermodynamics.

I have noticed, in every single specific car forum that "stock" brakes, as delivered are not up to real track use. what i have seen is that the pads and rotors wear out - very fast under real track conditions - from the early cars, through 308s, 348, 355, an 360s. I suspect that "stock"CCM brakes will not last as well.

Even CCm is gonna die and cost a ton, unless you can keep the temps within reason.

I installed the Brembo 360 big brake upgrade kit, (355-32 rotors & 42-44mm calipers on the front of my 308 and basically grafted the 360 brakes on to the rear, Girodisc aluminum hats and custom brackets & 330-28 floating rear rotors with the 308 Brembo big brake calipers on the rear.

Zero fade and no detectable wear after three track days. I would be willing to admit that the 308 is not a rocket, or the ultimate test of a brake system, but i think you get my point.

If the rotor is sized large enough to stay under critical temps, it will last.

chris

 

Challenge conversion to Brembo steel $7500 outside a dealer.

 

I'm with CWWHK. There is a huge difference between a real race brake kit and a cobbled together something bigger kit.

 

Here is a review posted at Corvette ZR1 forum which is believed to have the same CCM rotors for the iron rotor conversion;

Ceramic to RB steel rotors conversion - Corvette Forum

Same driver has done the first rotor conversion on his Porsche GT3.

 

Love mine in my Scud - will never convert to steel