Miura, the original supercar | Page 276 | FerrariChat

Miura, the original supercar

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by joe sackey, Dec 5, 2006.

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  1. alan

    alan Formula 3

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    Tree legends, thats a very wooden clue you have given us, could it be Mr boughboni.......Sorry couldnt help myself.:)
     
  2. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #6877 joe sackey, Dec 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ah yes, I stand corrected!

    Here is another legend (5076), still with the original down-force winglets Bob Wallace applied to its nose in 1972 to ensure the young Prince who got the new car would stay on the ground!
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  3. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Veteran

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    not like french journalist "José Rosinski" trying to take off...on autostrada, as reported in "Sport Auto" issue #100...
     
  4. kldconcept

    kldconcept Rookie

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    #6879 kldconcept, Dec 5, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2009
    This car has had a rich history, as is well known: born Miura S and displayed at Geneva in 1971, it was then transformed, at the initiative of the importer in Switzerland SVJ Spider, Ultimate Miura SVJ and only discoverable exhibited by Lamborghini - this was in Geneva in 1981.

    Vin 4808 - Jota Spider

    original color : orancio
    swiss tramsformed in Jota : white
    re transormed in Grey
    actual in Green

    White
    http://kldconcept.com/photos/Miura//miuras.jpg
    http://kldconcept.com/photos/Miura//jotar1.jpg

    Grey

    http://kldconcept.com/photos/Miura/svj-r//miura_svj_roadster%20%2825%29.jpg
    http://kldconcept.com/photos/Miura/svj-r//miura_svj_roadster%20%2826%29.jpg

    Green
    http://www.autodrome-cannes.com/lamborghini_miura_svj_spider_profil_driven.JPG
    http://www.autodrome-cannes.com/retromobile08_miura_svj_4808.JPG
     
  5. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Veteran

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    Michael,
    welcome on board... the point is not to polemic about the car itself, as I know the present owner & I drove #4808 last year at Spa track. But it has not to be considered as an original SVJ... I hope you understand better my comment...
     
  6. kldconcept

    kldconcept Rookie

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    For my part, there has been only one Iota, others are original copy, or not done by the factory, but never rebuilt a 100% as the 1st.

    the SV-J Spyder was partly rebuilt at the factory with mold SV J, then transformed into spyder are by 1st owner

    should rather have to break the question on Miura: p400 or S, transform and sold as SV
     
  7. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Veteran

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    SV-J = a factory SV modified in to Jota style upon customer's special request
    Jota = one of a kind, unique is not a SV factory modified into Annex J of FIA rules !!!
     
  8. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    Michael:

    Welcome to F-Chat! 2 points Id like to make.

    1. 4808 is a Miura P400S.
    2. 4808's transformation into Spyder, SV-J, and numerous color changes all have absolutely nothing to do with the Lamborghini factory in any way.

    Please supply documentary proof refuting #2 and I will stand corrected.

    Thanks.
     
  9. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    Not correct.

    If you examine the SV-J Spyder closely (as I did when it was stored with Garry Roberts in Costa Mesa years ago - I also drove it, an experience to be shared in another venue!), you will immediately conclude that there is absolutely nothing factory about any of the modifications done to this P400S.

    The front and rear hoods do not emulate the contours, seams, vents, riveting, mesh screens or finish of the work-modified SVs with Jota styling (the so-called SV-J cars). Neither do any of the fit & finish applications. It is well-established that the work was done elsewhere, and unfortunately its appearance on a factory official show stand is being used as a desperate link to the factory. The truth of the matter is that this pseudo Jota is no more a factory item than the twin-turbocharged Countach engine that also appeared on an official factory show stand! Its an interesting car no doubt, but in my opinion its provenance has been forever placed under a cloud by its owners trying to pretend it is something it never was. Where have we seen that before?
     
  10. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #6885 joe sackey, Dec 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    If it was done outside the factory the car is still considered a P400, or P400S, or as the original car was.

    If it was done by the factory DURING Miura production, the car is considered an SV.

    However, factory SV conversions from earlier variants bring less $ than cars that started life as SVs and have remained that way. Recent experience has taught me same!
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  11. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #6886 joe sackey, Dec 5, 2009
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  12. kldconcept

    kldconcept Rookie

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    Miura S Vin 4808

    1971 : This Miura #4808, engine #30583 was built by the factory in February 1971, finished in bright yellow with black leather upholstery. Immediately after, in March, it was displayed at the 1971 Geneva Motor Show as the S version, together with the new SV version. #4808 is therefore one of the last Miura "S" built. Its chassis benefits from the latest modification that the factory implemented for the last S series. The picture below show this car new in Geneva in 1971, just before the opening of the Motor Show.

    Just after the Geneva Motor Show, the car was bought, on March 26, 1971 by Mr. E. Huber, a rich Swiss enthusiast. The invoice from the then Lamborghini Importer Foitek in Zurich indicates the exact price and the part exchange with Mr Huber's Espada. This man, who owned no less than seveteen cars, decided to have the bodywork repainted red and kept the car until 1975.



    1975 : The Miura #4808 was then purchased by André Zenari, on behalf of Lambo Motor AG (Mr Zenari was a shareholder of this Company), the new Swiss importer for Lamborghini. André Zenari used the car quite often until 1979. At that time, during his frequent travels, the car was kept and maintained by Lambo Motors AG in Basel.



    1979-80 : The transformation of the car in a spider was launched at the end of 1979.

    Let's remind that Bertone displayed the famous Miura Roadster on its own stand at the Brussels Motor Show in 1968. This car (#3498) had neither a roof nor a hood, and the engine was visible at the rear, without the typical Miura "blinds" - a pure dream-car: the Bertone Press release indicates that there was no intention to build further Roadsters.



    It is this Bertone study - as well as the race-looking SVJs built in the seventies by the factory - that triggered the fascinating project of the Miura #4808 SVJ Spider. It was decided that a targa-type roof would be provided and that the "blinds" would be kept in place so as to keep the car fully utilisable. Lambo Motor got the help from the factory that provided the SVJ-inspired body parts. However there are some interesting differences with the SVJ body, in particular the unique and spectacular rear-fender air intakes. During the work, the the car was painted in pearl white

    The construction of this special bodywork was completed in September 1980, while the aquisition of Lamborghini by Patrick Mimran was underway. Mimran was decided to actively re-launch the marque and his first objective was to increase the sales volume.



    1981 : In January 81 the Nuova Automobili Ferruccio Lamborghini SpA was created. In March at the Geneva Motor Show, the Miura SVJ Spider was displayed on the Lamborghini stand, with an SV badge. This year was a very important Geneva Show for the marque: the Miura Spider was presented together with the all-new Jalpa 3500(*), the AWD LM02, and the new version of the Countach LP400S.

    (*It is interesting to note that the Jalpa 1981 prototype was also built on an older chassis (Silhouette "40058, first sold new in January 1978). This Jalpa prototype is now part of the Lamborghini factory museum.)

    At this occasion, the new Chairman Patrick Mimran, Giulio Alfieri, Chief Engineer, and Luigi Marmiroli, Technical Direcor were present. The Lamborghini stand, due to the rebirth of the marque, was obviously one of the most prominent presentations of the Show.

    This car generated excitement and speculations about a possible production of a Miura Spider... which never happened. The Spider #4808 therefore remained a one-off in the History

    1990 : The Miura SVJ Spider was then bought by Jean Wicki, ex-Olypics Gold medal in Bobsleigh (1972) and a famous Lamborghini enthusiast (today a real-estate businessman). He shares his passion for Lamborghini with his son Alain, who partnered with Zagato for the flamboyant Raptor project, based on a Diablo.

    Jean Wicki had the car painted in light Silver, and took off the wing and the chin spoiler, bringing the car's look back to the original Miura SV / SVJ. A fanatical Lambroghini collector, Wicki not only kept this car for about ten years, but also had it carefully restored in 1990 by RUF AG, in Oftringen, Switzerland. Jean Wicki also proudly showed his Miura SVJ Spider at the famous Lamborghini Days in Dijon,

    2003 : On May 26th, 2003 the car was presented at the Bonhams auction "Les Grandes Marques à Monaco". The catalog of the sale indicates that the car is "the ex-Geneva Motor Show,1971 Lamborghini Miura P400S Jota Spider, coachwork by Bertone/Lambomotor AG". Declared sold for 80.000 € + expenses, it is more than probable that the transaction took place after the auction for a much higher price (the estimate was 120-150.000 €).



    2003 : At the Coys "True Greats" auction of December, 4th, 2003 in London, the car is sold for £175,000 excluding fees - around 255.000 €.
    2004 : Associates of Autodrome-Cannes, a Company which has a long-standing tradition of collecting the best and rarest classic Italian sports cars, decided to acquire the Miura SVJ Spider, as one of the very few Classic Lamborghini "one-offs", that have spectacularly contributed to the History and legend of the marque.



    2006, February : The Miura SVJ Spider is displayed at the Paris Rétromobile Classic Motor Show, and pictured in the May 06 issue of Classic & Throughbred magazine, as one of the stars of the Show
    2006, July : The Miura SVJ Spider is invited, at the famous Festival of Speed of Goodwood, to participate to the prestigious Cartier Style & Luxe Concours ; this car was one of the stars of the "Miura Class" exhibition. For the first time in history, all versions of the Miura were displayed together, side by side.

    The Miura S #4808 was one of the last "S" built, thus incorporating the last, more rigid chassis with front and rear reinforcing brackets. In addition, the four discs are ventilated, and the two transmission half-shafts are equipped with homocinetic joints. The contact key is positionnned as it is on the SVs.

    The bodywork include special parts made by Lamborghini and based on the SV and SVJ: front and rear boots are from the SV, but include in addition air intakes and exits comparable to those of the five SVJs. The wheels are of the SV model, as well as the rear light clusters and the front bumper.

    This car has one important specificity : the SVJ Spider is the only one to incorporate the spectacular rear air intakes, giving to this automobile a unique style. It is actually the ultimate evolution of the famous Miura: sensuous SV rear wings, competition SVJ looks of the front with covered headlights, radiator air vents wide open and race-type SVJ fuel filler cap, as well as hot air extractors for the brakes.

    Many parts have a special black chrome finish - that is also found on one of the five SVJ - such as the front bumper, the rear engine blinds, giving a touch of exclusive luxury to this automobile.
     
  13. raymondQV

    raymondQV F1 Rookie

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    Lambo Motors was in Aesch 10 miles outside of Basel, today Pidi furnitures reside in that building.

    I don't know what happened to the prototype, nor does somebody else, the yellow car in the factory museum is JLA12419 the second last built Jalpa, he exchanged the jalpa and a miura for a new Diablo SV. This yellow JLA12419 has definitely not a Silhouette chassis, more likely is that the prototype became later the spyder which is today in Tonino's museum, unfortunately nobody seems to remember the history (well after 28 years and 2 spyder being built).
     
  14. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Veteran

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    Michael,
    your explanations about #4808 are very nice, but you don't demonstrate any evidence about an official "factory" involvement/treatment in this tuning Miura... you can argue about what was done to it, that's great for the amateur, but NOTHING was created/built at the factory...no tuning part is coming from Santa Agata !

    It's an S... you admit it and will never be a SV.

    It's may be like Jean de Lafontaine's story "the frog dreaming to be a cow... " and speaking about SV-J fantasm => b...s...

    I enjoyed driving at Spa, I admired it restoration by Lecoq, it's a very superb car but it's still a full tuned Miura presented on a Lambo stand by an independent importer back in the '80s!

    CH is a good land for Lambo tuners... since you have Roland Affolter
     
  15. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    +1

    End of story.
     
  16. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    Michael: this detailed history is all very nice in favor of this interesting P400S, but, the fact remains and will always remain, this is not a factory conversion, is not a works SV-J, is not an SV (as it is falsely badged), and is not a factory Spyder.

    No question it is a fascinating car, but its conversion is a Private Customization, such as anyone can perform upon any car. The more connections of the car insist it has any factory link, the more of a cloud is created over this car's provenance.
     
  17. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #6892 joe sackey, Dec 6, 2009
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  18. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #6893 joe sackey, Dec 6, 2009
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    And here is its controversial appearance that some use to link it to the factory, in the first of its many guises. Remember, in 1981, the factory was emerging from bankruptcy and without proper leadership. Not only was this car a privateer customization, but it was also a post-production effort, approximately 7 years after Miura production had ended.
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  19. raymondQV

    raymondQV F1 Rookie

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    The factory was never involved in any stage of #4808 except the production of the original car, everything else was the idea of André Zenari and done at Lambo Motors in Aesch.
    I know André personally and asked him several times concretely about this. I can call him on Monday and he will again tell me the same: No factory involvement in the modification of #4808.
     
  20. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    ICK!
     
  21. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    Correct.

    But again, at the risk of being redundant, I can easily appreciate and see how the owners of the car are proud of it, as a unique thing, or as a one-off automobile.

    For me the issue is not one of taste - that's a personal & subjective matter.

    The problem I have is strictly one of facts, when people start trying to claim it has a factory provenance which it does not.
     
  22. raymondQV

    raymondQV F1 Rookie

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    In his garage in Fräschels he has pictures of #4808 when he bought it, that time she was still red.
     
  23. kldconcept

    kldconcept Rookie

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    #6898 kldconcept, Dec 7, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2009
    for 4808, only the 1st transformed WAS rebuilt engine has a factory

    yes but well recognized by the factory as SV-J-Spyder
    because the change made above have been endorsed by the plant then its transformed

    I had the original documents in the hands in early 2001 when I work for are former owner "Jean Wicki"
    I scan the document factory that validated the changes that time (sorry)

    As said the factory didn't touch the body for processing in Spyder, but are given permission and some technical advice

    yes Yed no Orancio,as said above by me ;o)

    (the 1st picture on the stand to give Geneva Red / orange)
     
  24. eam3

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  25. kldconcept

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