Chassis 1C/10S Updated Information

All I'm saying is that in 40 years of experience with etceterinis, I am unaware of a Ferrari chassis taken off a scrap pile and turned into something else.....although, as I said before, anything is possible...especially in Italy

 

I seem to recall an interview with Phil Hill around 1970? He visited Enzo Ferrari and asked him about the 'scrap pile' and if it still existed. Of course there was a trap in the question because Enzo would then think he wanted something. The question was asked anyway but the answer was that by then it no longer existed. Anyone know at what point the scrap pile as a possible source of 'bits' no longer existed?
CH

 

Interesting. My recollection is that Phil renewed his acquaitenance with Enzo in 1974- he brought Brock Yates and a film crew along. Prior to this meeting, Phil had last spoken with Enzo in late '62.

Sorry to hijack. Just sayin'...

 

That doesn't necessarily mean that the 'scrap pile' didn't still exist. Could be that he didn't want Phil to know it still existed, especially if EF thought PH was after something.
Nathan
PS Just realised - this is my 1000th post

 

It may have some bearing on Enzo's response - Phil was partner in a restoration shop during that visit. Hill & Vaughn were primarily American classics but....

Jeff

 

I have a couple of friends (who shall remain nameless) who went down to the factory around 1976 looking for bits to restore one or more of Mike Vernon's collection. There was apparently an outside yard full of chassis/body parts and mechanical stuff stored under cover. Whoever was in charge was not helpful but they could see the bit they wanted and one of them apparently nipped over the fence at night and retrieved it.

I checked this story with one of these guys now, just before posting and he was a bit vague about the year, said it could have been even a bit later, and couldn't remember what part it was either, so am just presenting the story as heard......

 

Good point Nathan. Congrats on 1000 and each a little gem!
I don't have the issue but believe the Phil Hill interview about visiting Enzo Ferrari was published in Motor Trend magazine.
CH

 

Interesting thread.

As replacement chassis were supplied for later racing cars, I wonder if this car couldn't have been built from a replacement chassis.

I had the opportunity to view several chassis which were not stamped.

 

There is a first for everything. That is why we spend so much time doing this and having fun at it. Always keep an open mind. " Trust but verify" as one great sage said. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Bonetto did it with his Ferrari Jaguar. Why couldn't someone else also build a car with replaced Ferrari parts from who knows where?? just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

In 1989, Corrado Cuppelini told me that an F.2 engine with chassis cut in two was purchased by him from Enzo Ferrari.He, also, said that Enzo ferrari could not be safely welded and used in a racing car. A replica chassis was then build together with a 1959 replica body. The car was originally raced with the 1,5 l engine. Later on a 2,4l 6 cylinder of an unknown (to me) origin was fitted.

The car was raced for many years in this guise. When Corrado shunted the car at Monza a few years ago. He told me that the original chassis was rewelded with modern technology and reused.

Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to check any number.

Regards

Willy

 

This was an interview with Phil that appeared in Motor Trend in 1970. Phil recalls a dream he had where Mr. Ferrari becomes a baby in Phil's arms. Phil thinks this is nice until the Old Man bites him! Once again.

Chuck Queener

 

...have not posted anything in a bit...been busy...as i've been reading through this thead looking for specific items... i'd like to add...QED having had 01C/010I and 012I side by side...i can say 010I has curved and not butt welded tubes at the cross member...and the two chassis are identical...010I having had all evidence of the corsa substructure removed/erased...any remnant evidence being under the black paint...the truth IS in the metal...QED with both Jim and Micheal...will post my thoughts after the holidays when my girlfriend leaves and i have time to gather my bits here and give my two cents on a lot which has been theorized...there are a few shots of the chassis in question here i'd like to see...though the center of the steering wheel looks right on...and the wheel itself is identical to 012I...


happy holidays gentlemen...more in a week n change...

 

I totally agree with everything you say. That is why this is only a theory. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

This is a tantalizing post. The shunt at Monza "a few years ago" is obviously not long ago. Can you contact Cuppelini and see what info, pictures,and doccuments he has has.My theory on 1C10S is that the chassis was built up in someone's shop using parts 'obtained' from the "scrap heap' behind the factory. Cappelini's story indicates that parts were obtained from the 'scrap heap'. Now I am not saying there is any relationship between Cuppelini's car and 1C10S.However it would be interesting to know how Cuppelini's car came into being and how it could be similar to how 1C10S may have been created. See what you can find out. You might consider a new thread about 'Cuppelini car' just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

First, I have to apologize, I wrote Monza trusting my memory which failed. It happened during the Shell Ferrari-Maserati finals at Imola.

The chassis used after the shunt was purchased by Corrado before 1988 as I met him then for the first time when he his car had been rebuilt over a new chassis with period engine (11F) and period parts.

I will try to contact him but this is not very easy. Last year, he had not yet purchased a computer and doesn't answer very often to my letters. I will also try thru an Italian friend of him who is on the web.

It is anyway worth trying.

On the other hand (other side of the pond), it might be rewarding to try to find out the former owners of the frame. let's go gents.

Willy

 

When looking at this mystery I have hard time understanding how could a "very early chassis" suddenly come up in US around 1968 or so. I am also bugged by the fact that word of mouth said Williman car having been built upon chassis 031/S.

I just finished reading this thread through and am a bit surpriced how little is known of the structure of the early cars. One person says this, another person says that. There is very little that can be trusted. For me it is very tempting to think that this after all would be an early 166 Inter road car frame.

I would also think that stamping a road car frame may not have been as important in the beginning. I don't have any early road car stamping at hand, but would think that as long as Ferrari used chassis plates in the engine compartment, nobody would look at the frame stampings. Sometime during 1949 Ferrari stopped installing data plates on their cars. At this point I would think that frame stampings became much more important. Date plates were put back into production several years later.

In general I have no idea if all early street frames carried chassis stampings, but I most certainly would not be very surpriced if it turned out that they always didn't.

Best wishes, Kare

 

I agree and think that the 031S connection believed by a seroius Ferrari Historian cannot be dismissed lightly.

http://www.barchetta.cc/english/All.Ferraris/Detail/031S.166Inter.htm


Best

 

Hi, any luck with Mr Corrado? I don't research the formular cars. I am assuming the F2 engine you refer to is a 2 litre one. is it out of a front engine car and could that be from one of the 1953/54 cars when the championship was run with the 2 liter F2 cars. Do you remember it the Corrado car was front or mid engine. If we can establish where this 2 litre engine came from then we can try to find more info from the experts on the Formular cars of ther period. It sound like the cars had a serious crash which went so far as to break the chassis up and some one should be able to come up with the info on the car. If you can come up with the dates this engine coud have been made it will start us in the right direction. Good luck. thanks just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

After the four cylinder 500F2 of the 1953 cars superseded by the 625 engine in 1954, Ferrari built a 1,5 liter V-6 car for the 1958? formula 2.

The car is a front engined and basically similar to the 1958-1959 F.1 car. After a major accident the car was rebodied with the same body as the 1959 F.1 (Looking similar but maybe with a shorter wheelbase)

Corrado Cupellini bought a spare engine, a chassis cut in two halves, gearbox, transaxle, suspension and a few bits. A new body was made (similar to the 1959 one, which as far as I remember was raced once.

He entered the European championship in 1988 which he won.

Later on, an unknown 2,5 l engine replaced the 1,5 l one, allowing to race as a formula 1 against the Maserati 205F.

Regards

Willy

 

Worth mentioning that the Colorado car was not 031/S. Likely 037/S, but 100% sure it wasn't 031/S.

 

Kare,

The only constructive comment I have to your post is that I have seen numerous cases where real 'forgotten' treasure resurfaces many years or decades later legitimately- sometimes seemingly out of thin air. To that end, I do not have the same 'hard time understanding' in this instance. Thanks for your contribution(s) to this thread and all others. I continue to enjoy following along in the hopes that more clarification is forthcoming.

Best,
Dave

 

Here's the thing DM wound up with engine 031S and seems to remember it coming from this chassis.

Also if it's not 031S where is 031S?

Best

 

Taken into concideration that in 1968 a chassis dating back to 1950 was only 18 years old, I would expect to see some traces of a car's history leading into that direction before one car became another. Now we seem to have nothing, so if this is not 031/S it really would seem to be a case opf somebody digging out an old chassis from nowhere and putting it into circulation. I am not aware of a single case of such thing happening which makes me think it is very unlikely to have heppened here.

 

Around that period, spare engines were still sold by the factory (f.i. the 312P engine bought by David Piper for his 412P when regulations limited the displacement to 3 liters.

Willy