Two interesting vintage Bugattis -

From July Hemmings motor news:

First, they have a "preservation" article - about cars that simply have been left as is and not restored.

The Registrar of the Bugatti Owners Club shows his extremely patina-ed type 37. What caught my eye was that the engine had been removed, apparantly discarded, and replaced by - get this: A four cylinder Ford from a Model A!!! (the article really says Model B, but I thought that was the 1932 V8 model...). This was done long ago in the past, but still...in an article extolling the leaving of old cars just as they were for historical reasons???

Second, they have an ad (I think in the vintage Ford section) of a 1930s Ford frame and running gear upon which a replica type 55 Bugatti body has been applied. It is pictured, and believe it or not - from what you can see it was not such a bad effort!

 

Mr. Woods,
My fellow bugatti fan, you should know that Bugatti is not an Italian company , but since Ettore Bugatti was Italian I think it is ok here. I'll have to read the article.
Erik

 

Well, I thought it fit better here as I could not find the topic "Other French Cars".

 

haha very true I can't find that either
Erik

 

OK Erik, so if you had that Ford/type 37 hybrid - (rare as it is - the car was thought to be lost in WW2) - would you start looking for a real Bugatti engine and put it back like it was?

I certainly would. I don't buy into this "grunge authenticity" fad going on now.

 

James,
I am normally a fan for leaving things as they were found, but in this case I would put a real Bugatti engine back in the car. It is one thing to leave an incorrect BUGATTI engine in the car, but to have a Ford motor in it is a real shame, as one of the greatest sounding cars are the French Bugatti's. With the Ford motor that is lost. If it were my car I would keep the Ford motor on a stand/display near the car, but I would USE the car with the Bugatti engine. Now, with that said I think I would leave the car in "as found" condition with regards to the body/interior etc. if it isn't too far gone. For me though it would have to be a 6/10 to leave any part as found. I don't want something looking too ratty, so I would be inclined to do some cosmetic touch ups.
Erik

 

The pictures show it to be pretty ratty...it would not make even 2/10 were it not an old Bugatti.

What my problem is with this "leave it as it is" thing is that the argument is made that people can see the car like it originally was made. There is a point, if it is truly an original survivor that has had extraordinary care and storage and really shows a sort of "time capsule" quality.

In the case of something so bad it really need restoration, you can carefully photograph it before and during the process to save the moment of discovery conditions - that has always been suggested during important restorations.

If it is indeed just another example of what a 75 year old car looks like that has been left to rot (and in this case given a Dr. Frankenstein heart transplant), then I think that a very careful and correct historical restoration is going to show the observer much more about what these cars were all about than something that looks like the mummy unwrapped.

 

I am with you on that James. If the car were a time capsule, which it appears not to be (I haven't seen photos yet), I would be 100% for keeping it as a driver just with a Bugatti motor. But, I would rather see this car become a world class car again, like when it was new. That Ford motor has to go!
Erik

 

Ten four. But as you say - save the thing on an engine stand. It appears to have a nice set of dual carbs, if I can see correctly. There are plenty more for the vintage Ford people to use.

Also resist the temptation to put in the 8 cylinder type 35 engine - find the correct 4 cylinder (which was just almost as powerful as the older straight 8 and actually made more low speed torque).

You know, at this rate - in about 2050 somebody is going to find say a ratty Maserati Ghibli which had a Corvette 327 implanted, and argue that this is historical accuracy and that the car should not have the OHC Maserati V8 put back!

 

The car is the ex-Borsodi A.R.C.A "Scrambling Egg" now owned by Sandy Leith. Mr. Leith and his father Bill (R.I.P.) have been conservators of Bugattis for decades. The car is as-found and as-ran in the Pre-war A.R.C.A races that served as the foundation for road racing in America. It has a model B engine in it, not a flathead V8, and to return it to Bugatti power would be misplaced, as much of its history was spent running with Ford power. Previously, he was able to rescue, restore, and run one of the most important American race cars of all-time, the ex-John Reuter/Lem Ladd Ford Special "The Old Gray Mare" along with Ben Bragg (descendant of Caleb Bragg, for those of you who know your early history...) His current project is a very original BMW roadster that also ran in early American races. If anyone understands the value of restoration, conservation, and history, it's him.

Cris

 

Well, I am glad someone is having some fun with it.

Now, just don't tell me that there is a '31 ford 5 window coupe running around somewhere with a Bug engine -

 

There were so many mongrel specials built up back then (Egg isn't the only Bugatti to have a Ford motor put in it) that it boggles the mind. Few Bugatti motors found there way INTO other cars though. See Joel Finn's "American Road Racing: The 1930s" for details on some of the weirder cars.

I was just speaking to a guy yesterday who has a Bug block that has definitely been in the US since before the war...I think he uses it as a doorstop, perhaps?
And one year at the Hershey AACA Fall meet another guy had a Bug block that he was using to hold down his tent...he bought it at a UPS auction of unclaimed merchandise. Real motors looking for real cars and vice versa. As a guy I know always says "Every dog needs a name."

 

the model B was fords truck wasn't it?

 

Don't know - so maybe it is the truck version of a model A but using the same iron 4 cylinder?

 

The Model B is a later improvement on the Ford Model A, usually denoting a 4-cylinder Ford car motor built from 1932 onward. Model As as a car and motor were made from 1928 to 1931. Yes, there were some in trucks, and yes you might find some Model A motors made after 1932 (though I believe that would be rare) but it was really the low end mainstay engine for passenger cars that didn't come spec'd with the then-new flathead V-8. With proper assembly and hop up parts the Model A and B motors were able to stay competitive on the streets and lakes for quite a while.

In the ARCA there were may Ford-powered cars that were very successful. This one is an Amilcar refitted with a Ford 4-banger.



Cris

 

You also have to think about how much you are going to drive the car.

I am restoring a 1934 Singer Le Mans, when I bought it the motor was destroyed and beyond rebuilding. I searched for a proper Singer motor and could not find one, finally a UK owner told me about his car with a Spridget motor in it (MG/Sprite) and how well it drives on today's roads and speeds. It also requires absolutely NO mods to the frame, it uses the same holes for the motor mounts, no cutting, no welding on the Singer chassis.

I ended up putting a Spridget motor in my car, I agonized for months over it as it would no longer be original but I will also be able to drive every day if I want, it will supposedly do 70MPH for the freeway when the old motors top speed was 67MPH with the top down and windshield folded down, a original motor would not last more than a few days in S. Cal. traffic. So now the car will be on the road and enjoyed, wrong motor yes but enjoyed. So I can see that Bugatti article with the FORD motor, it makes it a driver.

Of course I have since found a proper Singer motor and I am in the process of rebuilding it, it will sit next to my Singer ready to go in the car at a moments notice but I will drive it with the Spridget motor.

 

Dear Erik, James and Cris:
I stumbled upon this discussion of my car, the Borsodi T37 Bugatti with the Ford Model "B" engine and couldn't resist a response. First, the car is in excellent overall condition and actively raced in the VSCCA, in fact, it will be in Pittsburgh this coming weekend for the PVGP. It is not part of the current "grunge fad"...but it may have been part of the beginning of it; I bought the car in 1995 and it has been in constant use ever since. The paint may be original Molsheim, but it is more likely circa 1938 and while "tatty" in places, the car always draws a crowd and I like it as is. If I can figure out how to attach a photo, I will! I did have to replace the upholstery two years ago, but what I replaced was not original, it was a circa 1934 Ray Gilhooly modification and it was pretty far gone.
For the purists out there, I do have a complete and original T37 engine in my spares room, but there is no current plan to fit it. The car's important history involves the Ford engine, not a T37 engine and it is far more powerful with the 3.3 litre Ford. It has won more than it's share of races and hillclimbs, but I did de-tune it, two years ago as I got tired of blowing head gaskets with a 9-to-1 copmpression ratio. It current has a 7.5-to-1 CR and, by the way, runs with a single downdraft Winfield SR-S-1-CC carburetor.
I am happy to answer any questions about the car, if there is still any interest!
Sandy
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Sandy,
Great to have you post! Welcome! Knowing yourself and your family have been around Bugatti's for a long time, how does this car compare to other Bugatti's that you have driven? Also, I think that it is great the way your replaced the upholstery and kept the old paint. It reminds me of the way my friend Fred Simeone restored his Cobra Coupe. How does the Ford motor sound?
Erik

 

Sorry for tardy response!

The car as is drives much the same as an unblown T35 or a T37A. The Ford engine has tons of low end torque and, as a result, it is a great hillclimb car. Ironically, it had never climbed Mt. Washington until I took it there in 2005. The only drawback is that it will not go over 100 MPH, so on a clear beautiful day, it cannot win a track event.

As for the sound of the Ford "B"; when we run unmuffled, it is among the loudest cars at the track, a deep, throaty second bass.

Thanks you, Cris for defending my honor!

Sandy

 

No worries - very glad to have somebody with a prewar Bugatti posting here.