Early Panteras

75 is what I've heard.

 

Very rare. Any pictures? Do you have the vin #? I have one, they are cool cars. Completely hand built.

 

Like this one?
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That one has the usual rear lights, doesn't it?; but Antonio mentions that the so-called Pulsantes (are they the first batch of 75 built by Vignale?) have different rear lights.

Gabriel

 

Possibly like those in early versions of Maserati Ghibli and Indy, which of course later also shared the larger Carello lights with the Pantera (and several other models...).

Gabriel

 

So, can someone give a concise overview of the Pantera's early history? Especially numbers made, who made them, distinctive features, and the like. That would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Cheers,
Gabriel

 

Gabriel, that's something we'd all like to know, and is a point of frustration for all Pantera enthusiasts. Unfortunately, the records just aren't there. We only know of generalities. For example, if you spot switch layout difference in a certain VIN #, that does not mean subsequent VIN #'s will have that same feature. I've heard it said that as the bodies were finished, they were just parked outside, in no certain order, and when they grabbed one to complete it, it to was pulled in in no certain order, and they pretty much used whichever parts they had on hand to finish the car that day, at that moment. In addition, all the cars built at Vignale, DeTomaso has no records of those, which is every Ford imported Pantera out there. And there are no records to be had at Ford. Some say they were thrown out years ago, some say that are still there, hidden away. We just don't know, and will probably never know.

 

Thanks Matt. That's is very informative.

I suppose that if price levels are determined mainly by things like condition, the history of a specific car (say, for example, celebrity owner and/or racing history), engine specifications, etc. rather than rarity (or some other special characteristic) of certain models, then the rather confusing state of affairs may in reality have few implications; apart from obviously frustrating Pantera historians and "purists", that is...

However, if so-called "Pulsantes", GT4s, etc. carry a premium price, how is autenticity established and what prevents opportunistic sellers to have their day?

Gabriel

 

This is a good site for the pushbutton version with a index of the cars found, www.smartstorepos.com/pushbuttons/header.htm

 

i had a 1971 pushbutton. vin 1355. they made 96 or 98 push button cars on a separate assembly line. DeTomaso himself oversaw these cars on the line personally.

very cool cars.
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Thanks!

 

What does that mean? Extra poor quality )

 

To me, a pushbutton would not carry a premium price. On the surface, they look very much the same, and so I've never seen them sell for anything special. When it comes to authenticating the cars, the VIN #'s do tell if one is a GTS, a GT5-S, etc. And yes, GT5-S's do indeed go for more money, as the body style is different enough, and the cars are rare enough, that they go for more $, though I still think they are a bargain considering their rarity. As for VIN #'s, it goes something like this:

Take VIN # THPNNE0XXXX,

T =DeTomaso
H= Modena Italy
PN= Pantera
N= 1973
E= December
XXXX = XXXXth unit built (starts at 1001).

There is a VIN decoder out there somewhere, but that's all I could find for now. I'm not sure how the GTS and other models are marked.

 

i sold my car 4 weeks after i bought it, because i was getting insane offers for it. i was told it would have brought way over the $55,000 i was offered after i had sold it for $35,000. car was a "lost vin" , as none of the Pantera gurus had any idea where the car was. i was on a Pantera forum asking about buying a "L series " car to modify as i see fit, and i ended up finding the holy grail of lost euro pushbutton cars, and a car that was rust free, and all original. by original, i mean scary, undriveable, non running original. took me 4 weeks to get it running and i sold it as it was not what i wanted.

i would have ruined the carw ith what i wanted it for. i will get one when i get around to it.


not many push buttons had changed hands when i last sold mine for under $75,000. perhaps the economy has knocked that down a bit, but there are diehards out there who treat the push buttons like 250 GTOs.

i will add i dont understand what the fuss is about either, but it was cool to have something so rare, for a brief time.

 

They do sell for a higher amount than a normal Pantera from my observations, and I certainly paid more for it than a regular one at the time. I get an inquiry ever so often wanting to buy my Pushbutton, nothing like that on any other car that I own or have owned. The last guy wanted a vin number car from 1301 to 1305, but never told me the reason why he had narrowed it down to just those numbers.

 

Fine, but if the VIN system is somewhat "messy" (see message #9) and therefore an unreliable information source for identification of specific sub-models, people could still take regular models and turn them into whatever higher-priced specials they wish, and present them for sale as the real thing. I suppose that it will be difficult to sell a, say, 1977 model as a Pulsante or push-down, but what if model years overlap...?

My question is; is there a lot of Pantera fraud out there?

Gabriel

 

On the subject of early Panteras, does anyone know about this car? http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C117903/

 

The VIN system is fine (though there have been one or two reports of overlapping VIN's .. still, very rare). It properly identifies Ford era Panteras (71-74), their GTS models, and all the other models. But there just isn't a lot of changes to worry about options. For example, the Ford era had GTS models, but they were just a cosmetic thing in the US--some badges and a bit different paint scheme. Why anyone would pay extra for these is beyond me. Even the pushbuttons to me hold no special value. Just because their door-handles are different? Who cares. I think you'd have more headaches with one of those because of the little differences between the later production Panteras. To me the pushbuttons, pre-L, L, and GTS models all are so similar, I personally would not pay a premium for any of them. Only when you get to the GT5-S in the 1980's would I value a model worth more.

Not really. They just aren't that high valued of a car for professional fraudsters to bother with. Much more profitable to go after the Shelby market, or something of the like. You have to remember too, Panteras have for the most part been modified and customized over the years by the Pantera community. Originality does not seem to warrant higher selling prices. On the contrary, most buyers prefer upgraded brakes, radiators, etc.

 

False

The true high prices are for original cars,fewer and fewer around, Mangusta included. The long term market is for originality, not hot rods.

 

This posted yesterday...
http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/cto/1537908698.html

 

That one's been on/off ebay for a while.

 

Actually, where Panteras are concerned, Ghostrider is right. Point me in the direction of an original Pantera that is unrestored but in excellent condition................rare as rocking horse poo. The best prices are achieved for cars which have been maintained continuously, with no corrosion, and typically with upgrades to cooling and electrical systems.
The mangusta is a somewhat different proposition, due to its rarity, and an original excellent car will pull a strong price, but a Mangusta restored to original spec will also.

 

This is very interesting. My impression is that is originality (unrestored as well as restored) is generally highly valued for most other collectable cars, with perhaps a few concessions regarding functionality (e.g. ignition and electrical systems), especially if the modifications do not matter much visually. For some cars, the price penalties can be huge if there are major deviations from original spec.

If that isn’t the case for Panteras, what explains it? Perhaps the (current) Pantera crowd simply doesn’t care much about originality and therefore are not willing to pay for characteristics that don’t enhance the performance and/or functionality of the car; or perhaps even that the (current) Pantera crowd actually prefers the “hot rod” aesthetics of many modified cars!

However, if Panteras become highly sought-after cars beyond its current congregation, that is likely to change. My conjecture is that original, but well sorted-out cars will then be the most attractive ones.

Cheers,
Gabriel