harness question

i know that shoulder harness can slip off in accident unless run thru dedicated opening in seat but what about this if dont have race seat? use the harness on track just to keep yourself in place and put the regular seatbelt over or under it in case of accident. would harness interfere with seatbelt function?

 

Sir,

I'm concerned that you are going to keep doing half measures and end up hurting yourself badly.

If you are doing serious enough track work to justify a racing harness, you need to get a race seat, six-point harness, HANS, and a roll cage. If you don't believe me, troll you tube for a while and watch race crashes where somebody gets T-Boned. I have seen some horrific crashes, even in Spec Miata, where the driver walked away with a bad headache and bruises because he had the right equipment. Please don't even think about any other alternative.

Dale

 

no race seat = no harness

 

post a picture of your current set-up and how you have the harness anchored.

 

nothing current but i used to have a 348 spider with rollbar and stock seats that i used with 6 point harness and no seat belts.

no one had problems with stock seats back then so im wondering if that set up would be ok now if just used regular seat belts placed over the harness?

 

Yes. The three-point stock harness would foul the five/six/seven-point harness and for quick egress, it is not recommended that both be used. Most folks who retain both use the three-point for the street and the competition harness for the track.

 

The addition of the roll bar is the reason why no one had trouble with the harness. No one would recommend track use of harnesses on a 348 spider without the roll bar.

While not optimal, I have seen folks run shoulder harnesses through and between the headrest supports and mounted close enough together so that it is highly unlikely the harnesses would "slip off." In any case I would not recommend the use of both harnesses at once. The corner workers would not be looking for that in order to get you out, nor would anyone likely have the presence of mind to remember which one went on first...

 

The Nascar style harness has another buckle up high on the chest to keep the shoulder belts from spreading and also keeps you from splitting your sternum in a crash.

 

Just to expound on this a little bit, (this is how I understand it anyway) using harnesses without a true rollbar in ANY car, not just 348s, is a serious safety risk. (there may be some cases, such as in a vehicle where the seats are so close to the rear of the car that the mount points for the harnesses can be attached to some part of the frame of the vehicle... NOT just body panels)

Use of a Rollbar is critical for a couple of reasons.

First, the rollbar will not bend in such a way as to cause the belts to lose effectiveness in an accident

Second, by wrapping the belts around the rollbar, rather than using a hook of some kind, you will spread the force of the impact of your body on the belts across the entire width of the belts, rather than focusing it into 1 single attachment point.

Third, and probably the most important reason, is that for the belts to function properly, they must be mounted in the same horizontal plane as your shoulders.

I've seen many vehicles where people had drilled holes into their floorboards to put in eye screws to attach the belts. This is INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS, and in this case it is better to use the standard 3-point belt.

What happens when mounted to the floorboard rather than directly behind you is that it allows your upper body much more forward movement. Effectively, what will happen, is that instead of pulling you backwards into the seat halting your forward movement, the belts will be pulling down on your body instead of back, with significantly reduced effectiveness in the horizontal direction. When your upper body moves forward in the accident, you will end up creating a situation where you are going to suffer what is called "Spinal Compression", possibly rupturing discs, pinching nerves, or causing paralysis. Needless to say, you don't want any of those.

To the OPs original question... I would NEVER use both a harness and a 3-point seat belt at the same time, for reasons already mentioned. If the vehicle has a properly installed 5-6- or 7-point harness, I will use that every single time. If they have one, but it is not properly installed, and they still have the stock belts, I will use those.

As an instructor, if a car has no stock belts, and the harness is installed improperly... chances are pretty damn near guaranteed that I won't let the car out on track.

If you do put in harnesses and decide to leave the stock belts in place, it is a good idea to find a way to immobilize those belts, so that they aren't moving every which way while you are out on track.

 

Good post, Robert.

 

so the opinion here is that rollbar and harness with stock seats AND stock 3pt seatbelt all together is more dangerous than completely stock car without rollbar using stock seat belts with stock seats?

thanks to anyone who can compare just those two options for me.

 

Yes.

I race a stock car without a rollbar using basically stock seat belts in a stock seat. Here:
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Another very important reason to not use a harness without a roll bar, is that in a rollover situation, the harness will not allow you to move out of the seat to get away (or be pushed away) from the incoming roof. Your head will become the roll bar.

 

I concur with ProCoach. Always use a harness when properly installed over a 3pt seatbelt... but NEVER use both.

Ah, hadn't heard/thought about that possibility before... thats a good one. Thanks

 

No roll bar or head support, might as well take off the helmet!

 

Rules and insurance require the helmet, but not the roll bar or head support!