Irvine: Button is going to get murdered at McLaren

Indeed.

 

Irvine's argument has strong points. Button has not been strong against three of his teammates in F1. That means you're not that fast.

 

Interesting thread. Guess we'll just have to wait and see. OTOH, we'll be able to see more of Jessica now in the Mclaren pitbox

 

LH is a better driver, that much is clear. He is quick and talented.

Jens is getting something different--as his career has gone on, he has learned to protect the car. While I don't care for him personally, I think he has grown. He is a little like Coulthard, if Coulthard had a bit more talent and a WDC.

I think LH will beat him regularly, but if the car is temperamental, then, Jens may be able to bring it home, where LH will get frustrated and punt the car.

Either way, I am ready to get going.

 

If the car is mechanically unreliable, and needs careful handling to finish, then I look for JB to "Prost it" and bring the car home and gain whatever points are on hand without engaging in too much wheel-to-wheel.

If the car is extremely reliable, then LH can just pin his ears back like his idol Senna and rely on his phenomenal pace which JB is unable to match...

It will be interesting to see which way the Mac is developed. Personally I believe they will go more for outright speed for victories and this will play into LH's hands...

 

style is good, but the content needs to actually be insightful.

to say that jenson is going to be murdered is silly. jenson knows he is not going to hold a candle to hamilton (really jenson is a mid pack driver at best, just look at everything prior to 2009 and then the 2nd half of 2009 after the other teams caught up on their designs to match what was the most expensive car --perhaps ever?-- in F1).

he simply went to mclaren for the cashola. i doubt this, but MAYBE just maybe also to learn a thing or 2 from hamilton. i doubt it because if you just listen to his interviews during 2009 you'll see he doesn't think he has anything to learn really. the way he dissed rubens is just despicable. i'm thinking specifically of when the reporters were starting to nag him about coming 2nd to rubens and is rubens better than he is, to which he responded well take a look at who has more wins. come on.

for those who say he is scared of nico (as in, even more embarassing to be beat by him than hamilton), was nico even selected at the time button went to mclaren?

 

I think it's pretty simple why Button went to McLaren. (a) All drivers want to be in the fastest car possible and (b) they also want to get paid as much as possible. It had nothing to do avoiding Hamilton or Rosberg, it was a better deal from McLaren. Considering he was pissed off at the offer from Brawn, it wouldn't take much to leave. Why not go to McLaren? 2009, roughly, had three segments, first dominated by Brawn, second led by Red Bull, third led by McLaren. If he's wanted at McLaren, why not?? That said, do I expect him to beat Lewis? In a word, no.

 

Well, and obviously just IMHO, I doubt they really want him. They wanted the #1 number.

 

Didn't JB go to McLaren for a bigger paycheck?

 

+1. The entire negotiation after it became apparent JB would be the WDC was re-couping the money he gave up at the beginning. The money was the entire and ONLY issue JB had to clear to remain at Brawn(as it was known at the time).

The team seemed incensed he left when he did no matter the MB involvement. He took an opportunity at another top team when it appeared. Money was one of the motivators and being a top team was the icing. That being said, I will be surprised if he battles LH as closely as some think he will.

No matter though, his journey is complete and he has a title and a follow on contract at a top team. He has a worthy legacy in the making.

 

Well I don't think he is getting much more then Brawn offered him.

I will say it again Merc wanted German drivers they could not call the shots at Mclaren a 40% stake in the team was not enough to say who drives.

So what a catch they have got now : MS and Ross Brawn together, its there dream come true, and this was planned along time ago IMO, when they realized MS was serious about returning.

 

+1

 

Being a big LH fan i always want him to do well. I hope that JB and he get along in harmony. All i know is that these two British WCs should make a devastating team for Mclaren. In all honesty i cant see the drivers WC leaving the UK for a couple of years.
But i do want the constructors to go to Ferrari Best of both world i think

 

Brawn offer was more than Mclaren's.

 

Thanks for that, so it wasn't for more money then, like I said he was shown the proverbial
door.

 

For MS? Na brother.They wanted him or Kimi. Kimi went to rally and thats when everything came into place.

 

So they would rather have Button a 1 x WDC over MS a 7 x WDC ermm ok then!!

 

Not what I was saying. MS wanted to stay with Ferrari as they were trying to get that 3rd car on the grid for him.They realized the FIA would'nt permit it, so there is the reason he is no longer with Ferrari.

 

LH is fast but JB is fast as well. imo, JB has more experience and better at developing the car. i think they will be close.

 

Ehh I beg to differ! Maybe you didn't realize that Hamilton's car got faster while Buttons car didn't change much throughout the year. Hamilton is a great developmental driver its just Mclaren and Ferrari started working on their car 6 months after Honda/Brawn, also they didn't develop a DD until much later in the year. Last season the aero rules had mega changes. Each team had to adapt and design a car from scratch. The teams with a head start caught an early advantage. This year we see little to no change with aero; the DD issue has been resolved and the teams will be able to build upon last year lessons instead of starting from scratch. I doubt Mclaren or Ferrari will be caught out this season.

Talent vs experience most people will take the talent and Hamilton has it. Alonso had 2xWDC'x when he faced the rookie Hamilton at Mclaren and Hamilton made Alonso and the Red drivers look like it was their first year on a many occasion. Eventually he did beat the more experienced Alonso showing Talent can trump experience. Also Hamilton did in 2 years what it took Button 10 and Hami did it fighting tooth and nail with Ferrari. He had no help from his 2nd in Kovi and he had the FIA against him as well. On more than one occasion the FIA gave him false penalties and took away a win then gave it to his competitor... he still won.

What I find interesting is that we keep seeing articles where Button keeps bigging himself up to Hamilton. At the same time Hamilton hasn't mention Button during this off season and his silence is deafening. IMO this non-statement from Hamilton show's how much he rates Button... he doesn't.

 

+1. If you put a gun to people's heads and their life depended on it 99 out of 100 knowledgable F1 fans would choose LH...

Most of the legendary drivers win races in their first or second seasons. LH started out with a bang against a REIGNING two-time world champion and fought him to a standstill and then proceeded to dominate his next teammate... When cross comparisons of driver pairings and common elements are analyzed, Button comes out as being of F1 caliber, but at the middle of the pack being as roughly the same level as other teammates. Most analysts look for Button to struggle mightily against LH.

Regardless of how you may feel about LH, the man is supremely talented and looks set to be a major player for many years to come...

 

One other issue that I had not considered up until now is a KEY one.

We will have 26 cars on the grid as opposed to 20. With the addition of so many backmarkers, the ability to carve your way through the backmarkers will come into play.

With LH's superior ability to cut through traffic a la Senna, JB with his less agressive style may be at a severe disadvantage in this area compared to his younger and more aggressive teammate.

...food for thought...

Frank

 

Frank, Button showed some good overtaking moves last year, I don't think he is as bad as what most think.

He made some bad career moves, never really had the chance to shine till last year IMO, as with most drivers, they need the right car to do that.

 

Steve, I agree with what you say. Button has the ability to overtake, however in this area I believe Hamilton is superior to Button.

Also, I agree with what you said about Button not having a top-line for the majority of his career. However, he has performed at roughly the same level as his team-mates.

With Hamilton able to go toe-to-toe with a teammate (Alonso) that had previously blown away Fisi (with whom Button was equivalent performance-wise), it does not look good...

Again, just MHO.