No manual shifter?

I know it makes me a dinosaur but I still love the involvement you have when you use a manual tranny. The paddles are no question faster and easier to use but oh that downshift- upshift feeling with all bodyparts in play makes it so much fun ....

 

not exactly a dinosaur...I'm only 20 and I want a manual gearbox!

 

Thanks for clearing the info up for me

LoL..who doesn't? Everyone of my friend has a manual gearbox, me included, just my family with auto...

However, the latest Mitsubishi Lancer is pretty tempting for me on the long run. Auto + flappy gearbox. The traffic is crazy at where i work....

 

Apparently 95% of Ferrari buyers!

 

It is possible, but it will require redesigning more than you might think, there is not only a room issue, but from what I can see it would throw off the balance of the car as well. It cost me over 120K to redesign my 997, so I'd suspect at least that. Not sure how many of you have even taken a car apart before, but it is always more than you think it is. I gave up trying to turn my egear gallardo into a three pedal car for two reasons, parts are not easy to find and it would have cost way to much.

 

Would all those people who refused to buy an Enzo because it didn't come with a manual please stand up?

[crickets]

I thought so.

 

And tsk! The M16 simply is neither a real Ferrari nor a real driver's car.

 

M16 as in the 'classic' rifle or a Ferrari model i don't know about? or 16M

 

Morrie- Details, details. "Enough money" solves everything. Usually enough money is too much money. Why did you spend $120K redesigning a Porsche? You could have bought a good Ferrari for that much money.

It is almost impossible to give away 599s with manual gearboxes. There are new 2008s at big discounts still available. When a car is designed around an F1 shifter or dual clutch transmission, the manual may be an afterthought and not really suited to the car. A friend of mine insisted on a manual shifter for his 2005 575M, but says there is no way he wants a manual 599 when he upgrades. Not a good match. Might have been the same for the 458, but a moot point since it is not going to happen.

No manual certainly did not hurt sales of the Enzo, CS, Scuderia, or 16M, as folks have noted. I am certain if Ferrari knew how slow sales of the 599 with manual shifter would be, they would never have offered it. The 612 was originally available with 6 speed, but not any more. And they are all special order now. No bucks up front, no 612, and no manual shifter available, period.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I wasn't offered one but if I had been, I would have flipped it. I don't see the appeal as a road car. Lack of a manual would be one factor though perhaps not the deciding one.

Dave

 

Lee- You pay your money and make your choices. Your choices will be entertaining and will certainly be much cheaper to maintain at any Chevrolet or Dodge dealer. Plus you still have your f430 and its replacement.

Ferrari will sell all the 458s they can build. Lack of a manual shifter will not materially affect sales at all. It has not been a factor for quite a while.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Yes, I could but already had one, and this car is a cab, I need the backseats for my twins. Besides if you ever had the chance to drive this thing, you would certainly understand, ask the guys at Algar. The car weighs just under 2800lbs with 530hp


QUOTE=tazandjan;139257952]Morrie- Details, details. "Enough money" solves everything. Usually enough money is too much money. Why did you spend $120K redesigning a Porsche? You could have bought a good Ferrari for that much money.

It is almost impossible to give away 599s with manual gearboxes. There are new 2008s at big discounts still available. When a car is designed around an F1 shifter or dual clutch transmission, the manual may be an afterthought and not really suited to the car. A friend of mine insisted on a manual shifter for his 2005 575M, but says there is no way he wants a manual 599 when he upgrades. Not a good match. Might have been the same for the 458, but a moot point since it is not going to happen.

No manual certainly did not hurt sales of the Enzo, CS, Scuderia, or 16M, as folks have noted. I am certain if Ferrari knew how slow sales of the 599 with manual shifter would be, they would never have offered it. The 612 was originally available with 6 speed, but not any more. And they are all special order now. No bucks up front, no 612, and no manual shifter available, period.

Taz
Terry Phillips[/QUOTE]

 

Lee- Just curious. Did your ZR1 come with the automatic rev matching for downshifts? Understand that is now available on the 2010 Corvettes.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I find the very existance of this thread quite amusing. I don't bemoan the lack of a stick-shift on the 458 - quite the contrary it's a sign of the times and the market has spoken. The massive majority of Ferrari's have been sold with the F1 'box for many years now so it was inevitable.

Paddle-shift gearboxes have been used in F1 since John Barnard's 1989 Ferrari - that's 30 years ago! I am only surprised that it's taken this long for a manufacturer to actually pull the plug on manual 'boxes! Does the lack of a manual 'box in F1 make Schumacher's or Hamilton's victories any less important than their predecessors? Not at all - the cars just become so sophisticated that there was really no value in a clutch and stick-shifter. And if that's true on a race track, well even more so on the road. Who needs a clutch on a road car today anyway? - especially with all the traffic and stop-start driving!

I read a piece in the latest UK Car magazine, where they were reviewing the major technology impacts of 2009 and one of them was the death of the manual gearbox. Car went on to say that when you can buy a great dual-clutch 'box for a Golf that's a sure sign that the conventional manual gearbox is finished. They went on to say that Ferrari made this point clear with the launch of the 458 by not even offering a manual version.

Stay tuned to see similar developments from BMW and VW (and I'm sure in the next few years from Porsche too)

 

So do many of the people who prefer paddles.

 

I have not talked to my dealer about the 458, but as some of you know, I am very close to my dealer, and I usually wait to see a car (and drive it) before deciding. it is not the lack of a gearshift that would keep me from this car (I have owned F1 cars), it is the fact that I already own two very fast cars, neither I which I can use to anywhere near its potential, and having the latest and greatest thing, has faded over the years (I guess after 50 something years I grew up), so I'm sure there will still be a slight draw when the car arrives, but I have much more fun making the cars I own even better.

 

Kinda off topic but thought id put it in here.

Not too long ago i was given the opportunity to drive a 430(f1 tranny).

My dream is to one day own a ferrari, and i was thrilled with this chance to drive one.

I hopped into the drivers seat with excitment.

When i hoped out though, i walked away feeling kinda dissapointed.

I just really couldnt get the feel for the f1 tranny.

I do understand that it is designed to make you go faster and harder on the track etc.

But to me it felt like the drive lacked intimacy and feel.

I hoped back into My Monaro and had more fun driving home in that purely because i could feel my actions pushing the car to the edge (Shifting down into the corner, hitting the appex, on the gas back out)

I just couldnt get the same feeling with the 430.

And now with this news of the manual being discontinued, it makes me wonder if i should still dream of one day owning one of these beauties.

Oh well, sure i'll be able to pick up a 2nd hand 430 manual when the day hopefully comes

 

But without having driven the manual version how do you know that you just weren't getting the F430 full stop.

 

I've got a collection of 30-40 year old car magazines...many times they speak of the death of the manual transmission, the death of the gasoline car, the end of the world....BMW had to reverse course and offer a manual for the US market for the latest M5 due to people being pissed off.

Yes ferrari can sell all the 458's they make but that's not the point of much of this discussion- many people buy these cars for enjoyment that doesn't necessarily mean the fastest around a track. Unfortunately, many of the people that want stick or will only buy stick are the 3rd or later owners....I just spent half a year finding an excellent example of a stick 360 and there are others like me (several private messaged me from here venting the same frustration in finding a stick while I was researching on f-chat) From a business standpoint I guess Ferrari is meeting the needs of their direct customers- some of us old diehards are disappointed that's all. I'm in my late 30s so I'm over the hill anyway...

 

I get your point, however in-car electronics will actually kill the manual 'box.

Cars today are basically no longer mechanical devices, but rather mechanics wrapped in a thick layer of electronics - for reasons of performance, safety, dynamics and fuel efficiency.

In the modern cars everything is wrapped in electronics, the brakes, the throttle linkage, the steering, suspension etc. Except the manual 'box - as there's pretty much nothing one can do with it in it's current form - it's a totally mechanical object. The semi-auto took that a step further. It was great on the track, but not for everyone on the road - especially in traffic, hence it's lack of widespread adoption. But DSG is an entirely different animal.

Many ratios make it very fuel efficient, the auto and manual modes are smooth and seamless.

Don't expect the next BMW M5 to be available with a stick in the US - in all likelihood, the DSG will be so tighly integrated into the design that the car simply can't work with a manual - sam is true of the Cali and the 458. We've crossed the Rubicon and there's no going back - like it or not.