Awesome! Great news on the mechanical cycle durability. We typically get 25-30 hours on a motor so when we swap motors, we rebuild the clutch - new disks and floaters. The cage frame, pressure ring and spring fingers will usually last all season. Not questioning your decision - Just curious. We run the small clutch and small Tilton open flywheel along with a very shallow dry sump pan so we can get the motor low down in the chassis. Since the Ferrari package is a fixed configuration, why did you (and Mark) choose the 5" over the 7"? Spin up weight? Rick
I think it was a typo. My clutch is 7.25, triple disc and so is Verell's if he crossed my PN. When I bought mine Tilton had just started saying it was ok for street and didn't have a lot of actual history info.....so they were thinking go with the 3 disc and that should give the best life. I like it becasue of how light the pedal is, WAY lighter than stock because the 3 disc means even the softest spring in the clutch is goo to 800 ft-lbs torque. It's a nice street clutch....if a tad expensive.
Mark's right I fumblefingered the size. It's a 7.25" clutch, not a 5.25". I also fumble fingered the Tilton part#, it's" 6573USORA-P12-07. BTW, I believe this is how you parse the 6573USORA-P12 tilton part number: 65 - Carbon-Carbon clutch part prefix 73 - 7.25" size U - Ultra High Ratio pressure plate (best modulation) S - Steel pressure plate (higher temp & more wear resistant than std. Al plate) ORA - ORAnge springs* -P12 - Pot mounting (Don't know what the 12 signifies) -07 - 1-1/4x10 spline** *I haven't found any literature describing the the various pressure plate diaphram spring color options. Tilton did tell me that the orange springs that Mark used were the 2nd lightest and that they were still the best fit for my application. ** Again, no literature describing the spline options. Spin-up weight wasn't a major concern, even with the steel pressure plates it's going to be quite a bit lighter than the stock configuration. I don't want it a lot lighter tho. I've driven (& now own) another 308 with Nick's light flywheel & Quartermaster clutch package. Between the lightend clutch/flywheel & the clutch being pretty binary, I found it very challenging to drive on the street. It was very easy to kill the engine on launch or between shifts. I also found it very hard to back & maneuver to get it into my garage w/o killing the engine a couple of times.
I think the 12 is just 12 bolts in the pattern. I thought when I bought mine orange was the lightest option....guess not.
They may have added a lighter spring since you got yours. They did tell me that the line had a major redesign a couple of years ago which is why my part# is different from yours. re: -P12 - 12 bolts makes sense(DUH)...
hmmmmmm.......normally there is only a redesign if they are trying to fix something, I wonder what changed and if I should be worried? Well I guess with my engine in bits and the clutch sitting on the shelf the way it will break is if the little one throws it on the floor so something
Has anyone supercharged a 328 without going to copper head gaskets? Any problems? I read somewhere, probably here, that you should/must go with copper gaskets on a 328 if you go the supercharger route.
Verell, just make sure you are home when FedEx delivers that baby. You don't want Cindy finding out about that "new" purchase.
Cindy's cool, I told her it's a 'major', tax deductable, Unobtainium Positive Pressure Induction System project R&D expense. 'Course I didn't exactly say how 'major', or how much in the red it was going to put Unobtainium Supply ... Then again, I don't ask how much those shipments she gets for her beading projects cost either... How much boost are you planning on running on that 328? If it's the 6-8 psi that SMG2's system delivers, the stock gaskets have proven to be good enough after several installations. I'm not changing my stock head gaskets. mk e kept the stock gaskets in his QV & was running 22psi boost on essentially the same SC system I'm working on. Then again, Dave Helms tells me he's already set aside a set of head gaskets with my name on them. Sure hope he's wrong.
I was thinking of about a 75hp increase (whatever pulley that would require). Originally I wanted to go to throttle bodies but I think that's more than I want to do. I removed the right-hand gas tank some time ago so there's plenty of space on that side of the engine for other "stuff." My understanding is the 308 gaskets are more robust than the 328's (or is it the 2v are more robust than the 4v??).
To the best of my knowledge, the 328 & QV head gaskets are essentially identical. I believe the difference is the location of 1 oil galley.
I think it's the 2v holds up better than the 4v. The issue is the flame ring is easily destroyed by detonation....it pops out, beats up the cylinder and flys out the exhaust. The gasket still works and doesn't leak, but things are a little beat up.
Pulled 1st pair of intake valve springs & measured them. The Mondial8/QV WSM specifies a tolerence of +/- 0.5 kg (about +/1 1lb) on the spring force values. My large spring tested 6lb low at valve closed height, & the small spring tested 3 lb. low. Furthermore, All 50 of the Silver-Seal #A508 0.060" I was counting on to give me 17 lbs of spring pressure increase all measured between 0.0545" and 0.0535". Called Silver-Seal tech support and was told that their min thickness is 0.540". About half this box was .005" below spec! I'm pursuing 2 alternitives at this point: a) Dura-Bond #6043 0.060" shims. Their tech support tells me that the shim thickness mfg spec is 0.065 max - 0.055 min. Hopefully their shims are running closer to nominal. b) A new set of intake springs. In case more than a few of my intake springs are out of spec, I went searching for alternate springs that would give me more force at valve closed height. The easy to find alternative springs are from sponser Norwoods. They are spec'd at 85-100 lbs at valve closed height. Price is a mere $1200 for a 32 valve set of Titanium retainers, Double coil springs, & Billet bottom seat. Nice, but my wallet is exceedingly flat after buying that Tilton clutch last month, so I kept digging & believe I hit pay dirt. ISKY Cams makes springs that look just like what I want, & cost only $9.00/valve - $144 for 16 intake valves. I called ISKY & got a very helpful tech support guy who went over the specs with me & came up with the same springs I'd found in their catalog. Turns out they're performance springs for a Jag DOHC 6 cylinder! The only major spring spec difference is the spring rate & it's compensated for by the ISKY spring's 1.8" longer free length. The net effect is that the spring force is 36 lbs higher at valve close where it's needed, but tapers down to about 4 lbs less than the stock springs at full open! I've gone ahead & ordered a set of these springs, but have the option of returning them & all I'll loose is the shipping costs. Meanwhile I'll pull the rest of my springs & measure them. Here's how the specs compare: Image Unavailable, Please Login
Just looked up the price of the OEM valve springs. Was guessing around $30 a set. Obviously the price of yellow boxes w/black horsies has suffered from the weak $: 117558 INNER SPRING FOR VALVE RETURN $64.99 each 117559 OUTER SPRING FOR VALVE RETURN $26.49 each TOTAL: $91.48/valve or $2927.36/set of 32 valves. Norwoods price doesn't look so bad now! I suspect even if I can get the correct thickness shims I'll go with plan B & ISKY springs. BTW, these springs were used on: 288 GTO 308QV 328 (1985) 328 (1988) 348 (1989-1992)PETS F40 Mondial 3.2 Mondial QV Mondial t Testarossa (1987) Testarossa (1990)
Interesting. I think I told you the springs I was running were also English car part, they were cam cams performance MG midget/AH Sprite springs (now apparently discontinued). From memory I had about 20 lbs more set pressure and a touch less nose pressure at $54 for 8 sets. I remember they were tight on the ID though and it looks like yours are loose so different springs. A lot of my stock springs were out of spec and there was just no way I was paying Ferrari price for replacements.
Check with Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies (800-688-6946). They used to carry perfomance engine parts for AH/Sprites. Maybe they still have some stuff on their shelves. Also maybe Moss Motors.
When I'd found that the Midget/Sprite springs mk e used were discontinued, I did a web search & came up with several places that supplied performance or race springs for the Midget/Sprite. I sent about 8 or 10 of them eMAIL asking for specs on the springs. About 6 replied, all saying something like: "These are racing performance springs for the Midget/Sprite." Not 1 of them gave me specs! I wasn't about to buy springs whose specs even the supplier didn't know! Actually, ISKY CAMS catalog lists springs for a Sprite. I didn't see it until after I'd ordered these springs. As mk e says, they are an interference fit on the valve seat & retainer steps. When I get a chance I'll go back & add ISKY's Sprite springs column to the table & re post it.
Was planning on installing the remote oil filter to the rear bulkhead today, but our microwave died & I spent all afternoon pulling it apart, diagnosing, & repairing it. Also, I'd hoped that the ISKY springs would be in tomorrow, but just realized that it's a holiday so they won't be delivered until UPS comes late Tuesday PM(sigh). So I'll spend Monday & Tuesday fixing column switches & making things for my Unobtainium customers. I've updated the attached spring table with the ISKY catalog data for the Sprite competition springs. There were two things about the Sprite springs that made me uncomfortable with them: 1) ID of the outer Sprite spring is an 0.025" interference fit with the inner spring step on the retainer & seat. I just didn't know if the spring would stay expanded once it was in place. 2) The Sprite spring only increased valve closure spring force by about 13 lbs. At 22psi max boost this would leave about 9 lbs of boost uncompensated for. The shims I discussed earlier would do a better job of compensating for the boost! (mk e, those sprite springs you came up with must have had a spring rate of at least 360 lbs to give you 20 lbs more spring force at 1.339" valve close height!!!) The JAG spring had a higher coil bind length than OEM, but since I'm not using a shim, at the QV open valve lift of 1.042", there/s still 1.045- 0.860=0.182" of bind clearance. The Jag spring's 3.8lb lower force at QV open valve height, or even the 9.2 lb lower force at the WSM spec's open valve height is not significant. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I've been poking around some of the MG Midget/AH Sprite performance sites. That 360 lb/in. spring rate looks to be available in springs for them. The British Leyland site lists rates of 180 lbs/in for inner & outer performance springs! Another site lists valve closed inner & outer spring forces of 52 & 27 at 1.25" length.
It may be a few days before I'm able to try installing them. I took one he!! of a face plant & breastbone flop skiing last night. Managed to drive myself home, but it sure wasn't fun! I've got a 8" wide elastic band around my ribs & still every time I take a too deep a breath someone shoves a couple of knives in on each side of my breastbone. Needless to say I don't dare cough, laugh, or (god forbid) sneeze!!! So I don't think I'm going to be able to lay on the topside creeper & fight with valve springs for awhile(sigh).
Ouch! That sucks. Get well soon cause i will need you to help me put the gearbox/engine block/heads back on soon. BTW Verell, any chance someone has that fall on video??
Actually, it should be on video. I was racing & they tape the entire night's races. I'll see if I can get a copy just for jollies. Oops, maybe I shouldn't if I laugh it's gonna hurt big time!!!.
Here's a couple of pix of the stock & ISKY valve springs. The pictures have the stock spring to the left of it's Isky counterpart. The length difference is quite obvious, while you can also see that the springs are quite close in OD & ID. When I put the Isky inner spring on the seat or retaine & press it as far as it will go to one side, it only extends about 0.024" past the side of the inner spring step. With the outer spring in place, the inner spring does't seem to want to overhang the inner spring step at all, altho it's hard to see for sure. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I'm trying to figure out how to trigger a cam position sensor so I can use sequential injection. mk e, I know you used a ford magnetic pickup, but what was on the cam to generate the pulse? Any chance you've got a picture or a sketch? BTW, Had an interesting conversation with ISKY tech support today. Just wanted to double check on the JA spring's fit on the valve seat & retainer steps. From my measurements the outer spring seemed to be ensuring the inner spring was centered on the inner seat. The tech support guy confirmed this. I asked if they had any keepers & seats specificly for the JA* springs & they don't make any that small. However, He was quite comfortable with both fits. The 0.075" the inner spring's ID is larger than the step up that centers won't be a problem. This is because by design the two springs have a very slight interference fit between the outer spring's ID & the inner spring's OD. Thus the tighter 0.035" centering tolerence of the outer spring will control the inner spring's location. My ribs seem to be OK, so I hope to install the new springs this weekend. Getting them in will be a big step forward as I can then reinstall the cams, dial them in, & drop the supercharger & it's plenum into place!!!
