308 GT4 for $25.9K. Nice price, or crack pipe?

LOL, kind of interesting.

http://jalopnik.com/5440885/put-some-prance-in-your-pants-with-a-25900-ferrari-308-gt4

 

Interesting article, interesting comments. $25,900 is not out of line if there is no obvious rust, the major has been done (which it has), the tires are good and the interior is not torn to shreds. This interior is brown which is in the 'love it or hate it' group. I think the price is very fair asking price. The thing everyone is forgetting in the comments is that this is an ASKING price......! There are worse GT4's out there with asking prices $10K higher.

FWIW, YMMV

JIM

 

Given the general state of the economy -- and specifically the Ferrari market (used... or new, for that matter,) I'd say the asking price is way off. It looks nice from the outside...the engine bay is well-detailed...

...but that interior is a value destroyer. Brown is bad enough, but tattered brown is a dealbreaker for an above-$20K GT4.

In this market, I'd guess that car would struggle to get over $17.5K.

On the plus side, it seems that the GT4 is going to finally benefit from recent good press. From Classic and Sports Car (final line: "why are these things so cheap?") and Top Gear to other F-car marque pubs, which normally focus on it being the step-child of the lineup, the GT4 will finally start rising up in value as the economy improves thanks to people understanding it's the F-car for people who want to experience a great handling ride.

 

Clean, well maintained GT4's are getting harder and harder to find. I don't think the brown interior is a deal killer at all. That part can easily be changed if you want either by a re-dye keeping it brown or a full re-do. These cars are 30+ years old and there is going to be some give and take. Ideally, you want the best car you can get. To me, this means a clean, rust free body, recent major (in time, not miles) and a transmission that works well without 2nd gear issues. Compared to what has been available recently, this is on the nicer side via the pics. Of course, you cant tell much by the pics! I have been privvy to some recent private transactions on GT4's......none of them have traded below $20K.

JIM

 

I'd take the base 308 GTS/Bi over any GT4 for that price. They can be had for that price. IMHO, usually the sellers don't want to go 2-3k under their asking price for the 3x8 series. Unless it's a fire sale.

Ace

 

Sam I'm not trying to be rude, but are you serious? I see people make these claims on occassion but they never seem to be able to point to a group of cars, not just one, that backs up that claim. Sure I admit that the car market has taken a hit but if there GT4's are struggling to get to $17k I'd like to know where they are.

 

I recently bought GT4 #10840 and was looking for a long time before I bought it and while looking I couldn't find any "nice" ones for less than about $23k.

 

I'm with dstacy. if there's anyone out there with a GT4 for 17.5k, please, call me.

 

dstacy -- you're not being rude at all...it's a very honest question/statement.

There are two ways of looking at this: what people are willing to pay for a car and at what price the seller will be willing to let the car go. Mostly my comment was aimed at what people would be willing to pay for this car. When I said "struggled to get..." that meant that those would be high bids...and the seller would probably keep relisting the car for a long time period.

When it comes to pricing cars in private sales, the fact of the matter is that it comes down to experience, luck and timing. For instance, I bought a '69 Corvette big block convertible for $6,000. I had two offers three hours later (sight unseen) for $15K (I didn't take them), because everyone on the CorvetteForum was convinced it was impossible to find any running '69 BB/convertible for less than $17.5. I found one that had been for sale for a couple months asking $14K.

I also bought a 328 for half of what a friend paid for his blue 328 (I think a year later). His had better paint and lower miles, but he mentioned mine actually drove stronger. I was told I'd never find a good 328 under $30K, but I did.

It's a question of where you look...and where you're located. I look at auto classifieds every day (online). I can go months without finding "good deals" on anything, then a 308 GT4 goes online for $18.5K....five months later (after only JDubbya from the F-car community goes out to see it, because it's out in the edge of nowhere), I go out and buy it for $8500. (Which is actually $1500 lower than an offer another friend of mine made after he went out to see it roughly three weeks before I made my offer. The owner rejected that offer.)

I also bought a new 2002 Corvette at invoice at a time when all the dealers in the NW had $10,000 second stickers on the car, and CorvetteForum members told me that the best I could do was $1500 under sticker. (I believe I paid $2000 under sticker for my '99 when I ordered it in 11/98.)

It's hard to compare from small pictures, but my GT4 had 150 miles since a full engine rebuild and a new seat kit. Paint looks much better on the ebay car. My car had a bunch of little issues that made it run like crap, but we're weren't too far off from predictions when I bought the car in terms of what needed to be done.

Basically, the problem that comes in pricing cars like this is that when people start seeing GTBs and GTSs being offered in and around the $30K mark, it makes it harder for the GT4s to reach that price point, because every value guide in the world places a higher value for the B and S. It's one of those "well, if I can get this for about the same price...why buy the one that's perceived to be the lesser car?"

Even though we all know that there's nothing lesser about the GT4! They're different...and as an owner of both, I'd say in many ways superior to the GTB/GTS.

I suppose the bottom line is: are there good GT4s under $30K? yes. Under $20K? yes. Under $15K? yes. Will you find them? maybe, maybe not. And more importantly, the ones under $20K/$15K might be asking $35K right now. It's timing and having the audacity to offer something low AND having the data points to show that if they want higher money, they'll be waiting for a pretty long time.

 

Nice price, the crack-pipe must be sammyb's.

Cheers!

 

LOL!

I hate when poeple play the economy card especially when they are not effected by it. Someone looking at buying an exotic car which is an expensive toy cant cry about the economy. I myself am not effected fortunately and even though its just the way it is, when I was selling my GTB I had countless people tell me what it was worth because of the economy. Bottom line is it still cost the same to paint the car, the parts were no less expensive nor were the tires and rims and today 308 parts are more expensive than in the past when times were better! So if anything the cars should cost more if they are exceptional because it cant be done for less if they bring a car back from the dead.

I know of a very nice and unique GT4 in need of some mechanical attention, exceptional cosmetically in and out so whats it worth? I bet I couldnt get that car under $30K because the guy simply wont sell it for that, it would sit unused before that would ever happen. $17K? no way, $8500 never.

 

This is the common misconception with valuing collector cars. The value of the car has little to do with the cost of the work required to make it perfect. The amount of money you "have into it" is not factored into its value. If the car is running perfectly, but needs $5K in interior work, it's generally going to sell for more than a car with perfect interior that is running crappily backfiring & missing because it turns out it just needs $12 worth of spark plugs.

Furthermore, if cost-to-make perfect was the basic methodology for valuation, no sub-20K car would be sold for anything if it needed body, interior and engine work, since a complete restoration costs more than that usually. In fact, with the exception of some rare big-ticket cars, almost all frame-off restoration projects find a final value at less than amount that it cost to complete the restoration.

Its value is a vague point defined by a)what other cars have sold for recently b)how many other cars are currently for sale c)the asking prices of the other cars d)how many people are currently "in the market" for that car d)the general condition of the car for sale compared to other cars for sale -- but not necessarily related directly to the cost of fixing...plus e)what a single buyer is willing to pay for that specific car when it is for sale.

And almost all collector car values are hurt by a bad economy. Given that the GT4 is the lower part of the exotic range, it has been hurt too. There are less people to buy...more people looking to sell. Just because the economy hasn't hurt you personally, it doesn't make much difference to the GT4 market, because you are not in the market to buy one this moment. 308/328s have been hit hard. Corvettes have been thrashed, as have first-gen Camaros, Cuda/Challengers, Classic-era Packards and Caddies, Triumphs, Healeys...

But at the end of the day: pay for a car what you think it's worth to you. For me, I tend to have lower price thresholds, but I've always been able to find cars for less than what value guides and marque club members have for their thresholds. I'm patient and lucky, I guess.

 

Wow, I actually have to agree with Newman! I would never get rid of my car unless the money was right. Poor me! I'm stuck driving a GT4 that runs great...

Of course if money is an issue then you'd have to take what you can get, but if money isn't an issue why sell? For most people money is always an issue even when they say it isn't.

 

From the comments:

"I'm cool with this. It's red, but at least it doesn't look like Magnum is lurking in the shrubbery nearby."

On a more serious note:

Price is not set by what you have invested - it is set by what people will pay. This "market" often has curious forces at work; try getting a used 5 - 6 year old SUV right now (thank you cash for clunkers...)

There will always be people who will say, "I won't sell my car at any price," but for any auto with sufficient quantities, the prices are often set by sales when the seller needs to move the car. We can say the economy has nothing to do with it, but there are a lot of "distressed" sales out there and this will put a negative pressure on prices; it has to...

 

There was recently a Mondial on the San Francisco Craigs list for $9999,

the posting is still there although the car might not be...

er...ahhh...put that in your pipe and smoke it ???

 

The price is effected by the level of quality which isnt free, only bottom feeders expect them to be cheap. I know my GTB selling price shocked many, didnt surprise others and I was very pleased. The buyer paid for quality without hesitation which was more than twice typical market value and he got a deal!

 

OMG, US prices really are low!!

I paid the equivalent of $50K for mine when I purchased it, and then spent another $20K or so on making it perfect. It has recently been valued for insurance purposes at $65K.

That's for a GT4, mind you.

Got some old F's? Turn them to Euro spec and sell them over here in the old land!!

Hans

 

Hans,
This is exactly what American curbstoners (guys who aren't properly licensed to sell cars) do. When the market for a specific car is so much higher than the amount for which one can buy here, they simply buy a bunch of cars, throw them in a container and send them to Europe.

Back in the late 80s and early 1990s, Mercedes 190/230-280SLs, Triumph TRs, Healeys, Morgans, and a bunch of other sports cars were being shipped from the Northwest US to mostly England and Germany by the container-load. It is generally seen as being a sleazy thing to do by most enthusiasts here.

As for the price/quality/value issue, you'll find that there's a big value difference for a "concours" car. Basically a 100-point car can often bring as much as double value, simply because the cost to get from 95 points to 100 is astronomical. (There is a saying among the Pebble Beach and Classic Car of America types: $10,000 for every point over 95. Although it's just a guide, ask anyone who has done a concours car if they think they can recoup ALL the costs involved with restoring, and they'll no doubt say "NO WAY".)

Personally, I think that GT4s are WAY undervalued, but again, there are plenty of cars out there for under $30K if you know where to look. Are they going to be "perfect"? Probably not...but in my years of automotive journalism if I had a dollar for every single time an enthusiast told me about a so-called perfect or show car and it turned out to be a solid #3 to 3-plus condition vehicle (very nice driver), I'd have enough money to buy a Gogomobile or Crosley HotShot.

 

Does it state anywhere the mileage?

Looking at the dash and controls it sure looks good.

Redo the brown leather (x 4 though) and rock on!

I wonder what the OEM color was....not a GREAT deal at that price, but not far off, IMO.