Lookin' for distributor cap(s)!!!

Got to thinking about taking a look at my caps and rotors...........and.......found that the drivers side is wasted. I need one. I cleaned and glass beaded the passenger side cap along with the rotors from both sides and all now looks well and hopefully will perform well, Been shopping the net and have found pricing from $873-$270 per cap!!! Just thought I'd raise a flag here and see if anyone knows of a more economical source or has a cap new or used on the shelf that might be for sale at a resonable price.............The drivers side one in my '87 has a center contact that is frozen and worn out. Then three of the six set screws are frozen and the screwdriver slots snapped, leaving a flush surface that does not lend itself anymore to allowing removal of the set screws.............By the way if anyone has any ideas, let me know. But I must say a couple of the contacts are just plain worn out and are even burnt thru to the set screws...............so all in all pretty wasted and beyond just cleaning and re-installing. Any help and/or insight would be appreciated.........Kerry

 

www.allferrariparts.com has a reasonable Marelli TR cap IMO for ~$120 each (no cylinder number labels and the setscrew points are a little different, but looks like they came out of the same molds as the original parts -- same parting lines, gates, etc.).

 

Steve's advice for the source (allferrariparts) has the lowest price. I could not find anything for a lower price.

Now about the reasons to why did your distributor burn. It appears, that whoever designed this device in Magneti Marelli almost 30 years ago worked with wires that had a solid metalic core or twisted stand core. That chap could not forsee the emergence of new types of wires with composite materials in their core (i.e., with wound filament around the hyperconductive core) and that piercing those materials with a pin screw can damage it to the ppoint that raises resistance at the contact area dramatically (or even looses the direct contact alltogether). I tried to install the Magnecor and Helicore 8 mm hyperconductive wires (needed to shave the tips a little to push those through the holes) and had to test every piercing step by measuring resistance of the whole wire while crewing in the contact pin (had to use a small aligator clamp on a small flat screwdriver). Sometime it took 3 times (cutting the pierced part off ~ 5 mm) and refitting it again untill I got a stable contact with the pin screwed all the way in. That conection is rapidly destabilizing due to engine vibrations and may create a local spark inside the junction with the wire, which can melt the point. Using the technique described above you will significantly decrease the likelihood of such kind of damage happening again.
My ignition works really well now with maximum resistance in longest wires of 1200-1300 ohms (picture attached).
Cheers.
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Steve, Took your advice and bought new caps for both banks @ that price........Never thought I 'd get excited about paying "only" $120 for a cap.....LOL!! Kinda funny, the salesperson warned me that there were no numbers and I immediately said no big deal, I drive the car!.......She was very pleased to hear that someone actually drove their TR rather than caress it in the garage. Anyway thanks for the heads up....Darth Vader will be pleased to have some new caps............And jgelovani I will heed your advice and monitor that when assembling, thanks.....Kerry

 

Dear Ferraristi,

...wasn't there an issue with the aftermarket caps?

....I remember something about not having the vent holes drilled in them causing them to trap moisture in them.

....something like that.


There's an old thread on TR dist. caps. I think the conclusion was to stay OEM.

Steve M....I remember you posting quite a bit in that thread.....can you shed some light on the viability of the aftermarket cap?


Shamile

Freeze....Miami Vice !

 

I don't recall any physical differences in the cap main body (e.g., missing vent holes). As I stated in my prior message, I examined both fairly closely (parting lines & gate locations) and would swear that either they came out of the exact same mold or the molds have identical designs. I do think the OEM contact screws are a little bit better design (for the stock F spark plug wire) -- they have a small diameter cylindrical pointed tip that pierces the wire; whereas, the allferrariparts screws have a conical tip that sort of mashes into the wire.
I made my own number labels, and haven't had any trouble with the allferrariparts caps in the 3~4 years that I've been using them.

 

did you get the caps from allferrariparts? i call today for a set and dennis gave me a price of $ 150.00 per cap.

 

Oh, here we go............again!

F*** it I'll drill the vent holes in it!! Better than $275+ each, so when I'm hangin' out at the XYZ Lounge I can point out, "It's OEM!!".

By the way, might you be interested in some bottles of compressed air that are labeled, 11/2/1988, Ferrari OEM Maranello, Italy/Inspector #12, for those shiney tires?

 

Yes.........$120.50 each and $4 for each gasket........Total came to $249USD.....Maybe yours have vents @$150 each!! LOL!

Seriously that seems odd that we were quoted two different prices!! Kerry

 

Dear Ferraristi,

Ah...OK then.

Relax Kerry, I honestly thought I remembered some problems from a TR Dist. cap thread where Steve M posted the pictures. There was much discussion about it.

I figured it was a worthwhile post to make.....it really wasn't at you. If there was a problem, it should be brought to the boards attention....decisions can be weighed and balanced.

If it was at you, I would have posted in the door trim thread after the pictures you posted. But, that horsie has been beaten to death.


BTW, the girls hangin' at the XYZ lounge are older than 24.....they don't count.



Shamile

Freeze....Miami Vice !

 

kerry what part no did you use?

 

I didn't see any mention of rotors. I thought it was standard practice to run new caps with new rotors or you are risking premature burn on the new contacts in the caps.

 

....maybe Kerry can make some from safety pins and some duct tape. No wasted money for the dreaded "OEM" there !


Shamile

Freeze....Miami Vice !

 

I installed new rotors when I installed the new caps. Don't have any experience with the trouble you mention when mixing old & new caps and rotors, but that's because I've never done that. For me, (even stupidly priced F ) rotors are low $ compared to my time/hassle -- so if I'm going to spend the time/hassle doing the project, I usually opt to replace the usually-replaced components.

 

...don't forget to mention the carbon brush (center button )



Shamile

Freeze...Miami Vice !

 

.
The rule old thumb was always to run new "sets" of everything.

Personally I wouldn't mix old with new but it WOULD be cool if a rotor had an adjustable tip that could be redressed and re-gapped for optimum life.

Actually, it would be nice not to have distributors at all and just run direct fire with a crank trigger.

Ah, harkening back to the days of dual point distributors , distributor machines and a selection of counter weight springs to change the advance curves........................................what fun.

 

Those new caps better have NEW buttons in them.

 

Originally Posted by Shamile View Post
Dear Ferraristi,

...wasn't there an issue with the aftermarket caps?

....I remember something about not having the vent holes drilled in them causing them to trap moisture in them.

....something like that

I think this aftermarket caps not having a vent holes was for the Diablo issue.

Jr

 

As for the rotors I bead blasted them and checked for wear..everything looks fine, I may find that that is problematic down the road ........Time will tell.

I did not give Allparts a part #. They asked and I said give me a second and in the mean time they actually physically went and pulled the caps and had them in hand before my slow internet connection caught up.

Their cap comes with the center contact and spring.

Below is a pix (sorry for the poor quality) of one of my rotors and a choice of three (3) bolts to secure it to the distributor drive. The reason I post this is to point out some pros and cons to the bolts used. First to note is that the bolts are a 4mm with a .70 thread pitch.

The first bolt, on the left, is the OEM which have been cleaned of dirt, grime oil and RUST.

The second is a stainless steel bolt that will not RUST, but that does not have the same hardness rating as the OEM, which is 8.8. I don't believe this would be an issue since there is very little "stress' on these fasteners. Cost was $.19 each.

The third is a socket head bolt that does indeed have an 8.8 hardness rating. Cost was $.45 each.

I have decided to replace the hex head bolts with socket heads because.............I had to modify (grind down the outer perimeter) a box end wrench in order to get the clearance to seat it around the hex head in order to remove the bolts. Yes I could use the open end of the wrench and risk rounding the hex head, but I found that you also only get about a 12th of a turn before the shaft of the rotor impedes the wrench from rotating the bolt. And the boxed end when modified wasn't bad, about a half a turn was accomplished, but between reshaping it and such a small throw I think the socket head lends itself to an easier and a more "positive feel" as to the torquing of the fasteners with a nice slim and thin Allen wrench. And at a total cost of about $3 it's kind of a no brainer when you replace or clean your rotors at some point.

Lastly I am going to use anti-seize on the six rotor fasters, along with the cap retaining bolts. Also I will apply anti-sieze (sparingly) to the wire retaing set screws, as well as a dab of dielectric grease to the tips, where they perferate the wires.

QUESTION; I am actually wondering if there is indeed a need for 4 vent holes in each cap! One should suffice, preferably at the bottom side of the cap to allow drainage of moisture/condensation if it gets inside the cap. But you know once that rubber/vinyl sleeve is put in place, how viable are the vents at letting out moisture and allowing air in? I know that in the off-road world we seal everything air tight to keep water and dirt out of the cap and run a single small piece of tubing/hose to a remote area with either a small filter in the end or run the hose to the airfliter box............which might not be a bad idea for the TR, being that the airbox is in such close proximity. It would be easy enough to do! Then one could feel more comfortable to "hose-off" the engine every so often, and not fear drowning the rotor and interior of the cap. As long as one either siliconed or introduced a liberal application of dielectric grease to the wires where they pass through the cap............a thought!
Any debate, pro or con?


By the way I anticipate recieving the new caps today or tomorrow. I will take side by side pix of the two examples and make note of the lack of vent holes (if that is the case) and post here.

Kerry
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I bought the caps from ALLFERRARIPARTS and they were $120 each

 

I too have those caps and have been running them for 3 years and over 10k without issue.

 

Ditto, got gaskets too. Love this forum!

 

Here are side by side comparison pix of the OEM vs allferrariparts.com distributor cap...........

Vents are exactly the same in size and their location as OEM.

NO Magneti Marelli logo or embossed printing of any kind.

NO number stickers.

Set screws that peirce the wires, which hold the wires in place, but also to penetrate the wire insulation jacket are NOT as slender and sharp IMO as the OEM.

As of this moment I am pleased with the caps visually........how they perform I will post when I get a chance to take the TR out again.

Kerry
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Kerry, IMO those cork gaskets - are rubbish, as they quickly fall appart. They are the coulprit of moisture penetration, condensation, and all that follows... Also, I dont get it: why to drill "ventilation" holes in these caps? This kind'a cancels the gasket function! I have developed my own gasket from gasket material availble from AutoZone (see attached picture). I have developed a PowePoint slide, which you can print directly onto the gasket material using a conventional bubble-jet printer (just set the printer to a thicker paper mode). Then, you just have to cut those gaskets out by hand (no big deal); you can use conventional hole punchers for those holes. The main advantage is that this material does not get the moisture through, especially, when covered on both sides with a thin layer of silicon-based grease (also helps the gasket to stay in place while you are placing the cap. Try it and you will never use those gaskets made out of cork again...

Another critical component to remember to change is that black protective cup inside the distributor (if you had this part it in your engine type). It is number 46 on the attached ignition diagram. That plastic becomes very brittle with time and is most likely damaged judging from the status of your distributor cap (from the picture). I have replaced it, because mine was cracked on one side...

Juri Gelovani
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View attachment Distributor Cap Gasket.ppt
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G...........You be the man!! Thanks for the insight. By the way I had the caps CMM'd ......OEM and what aftermarket allferraripart.com. is offering................dimensionally.................NO difference............A full write up is forthcoming.

Stupid