air conditioning

I just bought recently a european 246 GT flares Dino #06548 with air conditioning. After a closer inspection, I found out that the air intake into the engine bay to cool the oil cooler has been converted to the lower part of the engine. (see picture) Is this convertion original for Dinos with air conditioning? The oil cooler is slightly different in location because of the air conditioning compressor. I know this is original.
I´m looking forward to your answers. Unfortunately air conditioning is a rare option in Europe, maybe you can help from the other side of the ocean.

Regards Matthias
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Seems to be all original. What's about #05204, shall I have a look?

 

yes please,
I`m not sure it`s original,
many thanks

 

Is it providing cooling air to the alternator or to the crankcase?


PS - the top cooling hose into the coolant side of the heat exchanger is not stocked by either Dennis McCann, dinoparts.de or Superformance, but I found one from Mr. Young/Daniel at GT Car Parts.

 

I do not believe that this is an original configuration. Nicely done, however. There is no need for air to flow by the oil/water heat exchanger. It is not an oil cooler, but a method to maintain equilibrium of temperature between oil and water.

It appears that a previous owner routed intake duct air to the area above the exhaust manifold, a source of heat that cooks the alternator/water pump belt. Is the aluminum ducting open at the bottom? That is, does air enter from the side vent behind the door and exit near the alternator belt?

Jim S.

 

yes, it`s providing cooling air to the lower part of the engine. The grey cooling hose ist original. Original it points to the heat exchanger.

 

Jim, I do agree. But it looks very professional and old. I know it`s not an oil cooler, but I couldn`t figure out the correct word (oil/water heat exchanger).

Yes, the open is at the bottom and diverts the fresh air to the lower part of the engine.

Jim, is this a good thing to do? To divert the cool air to the lower section of the engine.

 

Look at the hose clamp on it above the rivetted bracket. If it is not the italian style then that may resolve the question on originality.

 

99% sure it is not original but probably wouldn't hurt anything if you left it. The Dino doesn't seem to show any ill effects by not having this modification. If it were me, I would take it off.

 

I agree, if nobody can find this feature fitted to his air conditioning Dino, I will take it off.
I think it`s very unlikely a original part and for me the cars need to be 100% original.
Many thanks for your opinions sofar.
Regards Matthias

 

I believe that the designer of this system intended for the air to go to the heat shield that sits between 1) the forward exhaust manifold where it meets the muffler and 2) the alternator belt/lower oil line. The lower oil line that runs from the oil filter mounting base sits immediately above the exhaust manifold. Perhaps they were trying to bring cool air to this area (above the forward exhaust manifold where it joints the muffler).

It is not original, but likely providing some function. It is not necessary. Dinos are well cooled with substantial water capacity (the capacity of the long lines running to and from the radiator add a great deal). The heat exchanger was in line with the vented air entering the passenger side duct (behind the door). However, as can be seen with its design, it was not meant to be air-cooled. It is a cylinder without fins. Its function is to simply heat the oil more rapidly (with hot water), and then to cool the oil with thermostatically controlled water.

The heat shield mentioned above, between the forward exhaust manifold where it meets the muffler and the oil line and alternator belt, is quite important. I believe that I am able to see one on your car. If you do not have one, do a bit of research and make one out of aluminum. It is quite easy to fabricate and mount.

Jim S.

 

many thanks Jim, heat shields are all in place. For the time being I keep it as it is and when I`m doing the restauration in two to three years, I will remove it to original specifikations.
Regards Matthias

 

Matthias, I would not remove that ducting at all. I am going to go out on a limb and contradict everyone here: I believe this modification was done by the factory. It looks too well integrated into the design, and it looks to be of the same age as the surrounding metal pieces. This may have been an alteration that was planned for all cars with A/C, but was quickly abandoned because it proved to be of limited effectiveness. In other words, you may have an interesting piece of Dino engineering history here.

I think Ferrari tried to address a known, problematic hot spot in the engine compartment with this ducting. The area around the forward exhaust manifold gets very hot and has very little air circulation. Unfortunately, right in the middle of this hot spot, the alternator is mounted! In fact, I believe the many reports of premature alternator failures are due to excessive heat rather than anything else. An A/C compressor adds even more heat and restricts the air circulation even more in the engine compartment, so ducting some cool air to the alternator probably seemed like a logical thing to do.
Soon the engineers probably discovered that because the alternator was heated from the exhaust manifold by radiation rather than convection, air circulation did little or nothing to improve the situation. In cases of heat transfer by radiation, only shielding will help, so the ducting was abandoned.

If I am right, there should be at least another couple of cars somwhere with the same ducting installed. This is all pure speculation on my part, of course, but I really believe it was a factory modification.

 

Hello Lars,

your thoughts are very interesting. Yes you are right, the whole thing looks old and professionally done. Maybe you are right. Hopefully somebody else will come up with the same feature. That would be great.
But I´m not very hopeful :-(
My Dino is #06548 (May 1973) delivered to Torino, Italy and basicly it had only two owners until I bought it in 2009. It has 77.000 original Km on the clock and is apart from a paint job done many years ago 100% original (old carpets, interior...)
It`s a very rare original european flares 246 GT with 7 1/2 x 14 Campagnolo wheels.
Colour is Nocciola Met. with black vinyl interior.

Regards Matthias

 

Matthias,
on my right hand fuel tank there is a threaded stud high on the rear face of the tank and just to the left of the strap. It is used to mount the ~6" "P" shaped bracket that hold the end of the flexible air tube. I am pretty sure this is common to most Dinos. Does yours have this stud. It would be behind your air duct anomaly. Does the stud show any signs of use? I gues if it had not been used it may be covered with the "dried oatmeal" fuel tank coating or even just paint. Long shot but may be a clue.
kevin

 

Seems rather odd to find a piece of original A/C engineering on 06548 when they were installing A/C in Dinos in the 02XXX range. May have taken them that long to figure out they had a problem, I guess, but it seems like there would have been some sort of test program before installing it on a production car. Back then, though, who knows? Could have pulled one off the line and tried it out, or taken a test car, refurbed it and sold it as regular production.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Hello Kevin,
I just took a picture for you of a spare tank for air conditioning Dinos I do have.
No threaded stud attached to the tank.
Regards Matthias
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Hello Matthias,
Congratulations on finding an unrestored two-owner car! Such cars are very rare nowadays. I hope you take many photos of the interior, etc. before you do anything to it. Those of us who care about originality are always interested in photos of original condition cars.
From what you are telling us about the car, it seems even less likely that the ducting was done by one of the -only two- previous owners.
Anyway, I am happy to hear that another very original Dino is in good hands!
Regards,
Lars

 

Mattius, this is the mount point I was thinking off. Looks like yours is quite different.
Kevin
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Great picture Kevin, many thanks.
Yes the fuel tank for air conditioning Dinos is different in shape. (the reason I took a picture of my spare one, so you can really see the difference) It`s higher in the middle so the air hose can only be directed like seen on my first picture. As you can see, the left side of the fuel tank has a big notch. This is because the air conditioning compressor needs that space.
Regards Matthias

 

Would anyone be interested in a full R-134a retrofit kit for their already existing OEM A/C system?