Just got pulled over in the GT4

I haven't been pulled over in the last 16 years. I decided after running an errand to waste some time before picking up my kids at school...and after a moment of trying to decide where to go, I figured I'd just go to my buddy's shop and shoot the breeze for five or ten minutes.

I passed a Washington State Patrol who had pulled someone over. I was going the speed limit. I get about 3/4 of a mile down the hill and he comes flying down with his lights on. The people behind me pull off and he follows me.

He asks me if I have a real license plate with tabs, and I explain that I have a "date of manufacture" plate. He asks for the vin plate, registration, proof of insurance (luckily I had the insurance card for my Toyota in my pocket, because I couldn't find the Hagerty one!)

After 15 minutes...

Turns out that the person at the Dept of Licensing transferred the title and did the registration, but screwed up and didn't link it with the license plate that I brought in, so when the cop put the license plate into the computer, it came up blank. Essentially, the car is titled and registered, but not registered as a driven vehicle?!?!

But, he basically profiled me because I was in a sports car with a green-on-white old WA plate.

The hassle is that he wrote a modification notice, which means a) I have 15 days to fix it (no problem, I'll fix it tomorrow) but b) I have to go flag down a police officer and have him/her sign it and then mail it in to the WSP. All for a DOL employee's mistake!

 

You should be ashamed of yourself for paying that clerk's salary.

 

Now translate that 10 years hence when you have a heart attack and the admittance office says, "We have your birth certificate in the computer but no record of you existing since then. You must track down a doctor from your youth who can verify you still have the original heart and meanwhile, you are barred from admittance until this is taken care of. Probably a simple government worker error."

And yes, the average Fed wage is now $72k before benefits.

By the by, that cop had you mentally tagged before he had a chance to enter your plates. Selective persecution.

 

I got pulled over in the Mondial for no front plate. Cop said he'd seen me around the court house, knew who I was, and even though there is no place for the plate, he ticketed me. I told him that it was probably the biggest mistake he'd made in a while. I plan on dragging his sorry butt into court at least 10, 15 times, before I get it signed off.

Art

 

Sam are you sure he just didn't know what he was doing. I was told the license plate wouldn't show up in a search because they tie the plate number to the title. When I did mine I was sent a "title application/registration certificate" instead of a regular registration. It lists the license plate in the "equipment" block not in the "license/plate" block.

I also printed a copy of the rules from the DOL website and keep it with the registration for cases just like yours.

They did have you bring in the title when you registered it didn't they? If not they really messed it up from how they were supposed to do it!?

 

Interesting, what is your reasoning when you say this. Because you chose not to comply with the law that would compromise the look of your pretty car you want to torture an honest law enforcement official. You kinda sound like a not so nice person. Are you going to find me and burn me down now too for questioning your high opinion of yourself. I'm not sure if I'm joking or not because I don't know you personally.

 

jebus christ guys not another i love cops i hate cops thread...lets talk about cam belt changing intervals.

 

He spends a lot of time in and around courthouses as it is & since he was invited by the cop to appear, he may as well get some kicks while he's at it by redefining "pain and suffering" to the cop just by dragging him and case back and forth and baaack and forth and baaack and fooorth and baaaaacka and foorth over cobblestones with one RSVP after another.

Sounds exciting!

 

A few simple questions. I think CA requires a front plate? So if they do.... (#1) were you breaking the law? (#2) Did you know that you were breaking the law? If both answers are yes, (#3) do the laws apply to everyone except Mondial owners? If the answer to #3 is "no" then do you feel the laws must apply to everyone except you?

You broke the law. You got caught. Don't be an a$$ to the guy doing his job!

 

I got busted not too long ago for not having a front license plate on the mondial - yes, it's not easy to attach one and it looks ugly and all that, etc. I knew what the law was (in WA you have to have a front plate) and I chose to ignore it and take my chances. Consequently, when I got pulled over and busted for it I had no complaints whatsoever. Doesn't mean I have to like writing a check to WA State for $112.00, but I know it's the right thing.

Incidentally, yes, front plates do help to reduce crime.

The law is the law, and respect of the law is one of a very few things that separates us from an uncivilized society.

 

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Thank God Someone else see's the cop bashing crap has really gotten old.


Oh and Yes Art (2000Yellow360) We all know you are the worlds greatest lawyer and all police should just stay clear of you because you will drag our sorry A$$ 'S to court if we try to make you obey the law. You would think all the local officers would have learned by know that you are in fact "ABOVE ALL LAWS"

 

+1 Thanks for now giving the reinforcing the thought "Fcar owners are asshats"

 

I don't know of a single Ferrari in Marin County (where the ticket was given) that has a front plate. Indeed, the Mondial t has no place for the plate. 99% of the cops that I see don't do anything about it. This jerk decided, probably because I'd humiliated him in court before, to give me the ticket. So be it. The same law that allows him to ticket me, also allows me to use the procedural rules to cause him grief, and I'm going to do exactly that. His job, as I see it, is to "protect and serve" (CHP motto). Handing out fix it tickets isn't within either of those, especially when it isn't a safety issue (I can see those tickets for headlights, tail lights, etc., because they impact on safety). This was just an F-you, and I'll deal with it as such.

Interesting point: The feds let the car be sold in California with no provision for a front plate. Supremacy clause should invalidate the California rule. Let's see how the court likes that argument, and when we get into Federal court over that issue, just how much they want to play, when it starts costing them real money.

Art

 

One of the earliest examples of the Supreme Court ruling that a state law violated the constitution under the Supremacy Clause came in the landmark McCulloch v. Maryland (1819), wherein the court ruled that the state of Maryland could not tax the Second Bank of the United States, establishing the principle that the states could not tax the federal government.

In Edgar v. Mite Corporation, 457 U.S. 624 (1982), the Supreme Court ruled:

"A state statute is void to the extent that it actually conflicts with a valid federal statute."

In effect, this means that a state law will be found violating the supremacy clause when either of two conditions exists:[1]

compliance with both federal and state law is impossible
[2]
"...state law stands as an obstacle to the accomplishment and execution of the full purposes and objectives of Congress..."


Uh Art, maybe you should review the Supremacy clause: See Above
Your statement doesn't meet either condition set forth
1 You can put a front plate on the Mondail (its not impossible)
2 Nothing in the requirement stops the sale of the car or any objective of congress

So sounds impressive but doesn't hold any water.

 

The Great State of Texas is pretty hard on front plates....as one Officer quipped:

"If they give you two, they want you to USE two!""

We laughed.....I have 100 Club logos on all the Ferraris.

The Houston Police use it as a real revenue producer and a chance to "check you out".

And the Highway Patrol uses the metal to reflect radar, I have had one of them LIGHT UP, doughnut and chase me way down to talk about it....

So, I zip tie 'em on, when I hit the road....

 

Let's see what the 9th circuit does with this. I suspect it isn't anywhere as neat as you suggest. That's why we have lawyers argue cases. Indeed, if you put a plate on the front of the car, you'll have to damage it by drilling holes, adding things, and when it's on the car, because of the height, it will probably violate the regulation about being a certain height above the pavement, I suspect there may be a little wiggle room here, probably enough so that the DA in Marin won't want to play. They've dealt with me before, and most of the time, it hasn't been pleasant for them.

Art

 

Turn about is fair play. Hah!

 

I love these Saints and Sinners threads. I sure all cops think they are justified, for whatever reason, to pull over anybody over for any reason. If this wasn't your situation, then I believe you are the exception. Judges give the shadow of the doubt to cops in almost ANY situation believing that it helps them do their jobs. Don't think it doesn't get abused.
Those of us that have friends who are cops know lots of stories. It's knowing what you can get away with. Some of this is justified in that if you see something suspicious or questionable, you have to be able to check it out.
But it DOES get abused. And if the cops play the game, I think the people should be able to do the same. Especially until we start making some laws that make sense. I have met cops that act like they are saving the world by giving you a ticket and others that are pissed because you're keeping them from something else but they all know that it is how their salaries are paid and if they didn't do it, their superior is going to give them hell because it's the main source of income. The revenues of "LE" are many and the economy depends on it as a huge resource the taxpayer could never shoulder. Jails, courts, clerks, insurance, all the cars, the servicing, blah, blah, blah....
Some egos run a little high in the force but most are pretty decent guys. Hey, it's not Russia. Fight it. Especially if you feel it was undeserved (c'mon, LE guys, don't act like it doesn't happen).
Gotta find that balance. I do like to drive fast, but not showing off in front of schools or burning out of a parking lot. Hey, it's a Ferrari. They ARE watching you, waiting in some hideaway for you to "let it out".
Play the game to win. Some like to cheat. Some will play it straight. Life is good.

 

Yah, the LE types could make this a learning moment and give us some ideas on what has made them NOT give the guy the ticket. That would be a thread that would be read by everyone, I'll bet.
Hey, we could make that one a stickie.

 

Got it all worked out this morning. The police officer was right -- there was no plate linked to the "equipment" field. It amounted from no more than a data input error when I originally transferred the title and registered the car (which, incidentally was one year ago tomorrow!)

The guy down at the Dept. of Licensing took about 15 minutes to unravel everything and get everything fixed. I have the new registration and they resubmitted for a changed title (which is the only way to do it with a lifetime collector vehicle registration). Obviously there was no charge.

He even let me know that I could probably just walk to the building next door to have the Thurston Co. Sherrif's Dept. sign off on the change requirement slip...which they did. The officer at the desk said "I know how you feel", evidently the state inverted his birthday on a form and he had to go through hell and high water to change it (even had to pull out the badge and say "we work for the same people").

SO everything is taken care of. Next time when a police officer sees the old green plate and freaks out, when he gets close enough to put in my plate number it should come back a-okay.

 

Art,

With all due professional respect (one lawyer to another), why not just go ahead and obey the clear intent of the law in CA/Marin there? Just because one person gets "targeted" doesn't mean the law is at fault, it's the enforcement that's off. In other words, attacking the underlying law in itself to get at the problem of selective enforcement is an inefficient process.

Incidentally, using up court time for the hearing of your argument consumes valuable public resources (court time and $) which probably could be spent on better uses. Said another way, everyone else's public tax dollars are being consumed so you can vent your personal frustrations. I don't mean to offend, I just don't see any other way to look at it.

 

... or work at changing the laws to make it more civilized. Nobody wants "stupid" laws. And I've talked with cops and they have said the same thing. What's it take to get people ticked off at the right culprit? I guess there are no congressman on the site that would care to admit it? Power of the pen. When they see 100 letters of complaint, in their heads, they multiply that to how many are ticked that don't complain.
Then again, we may as well expect "pigs to fly" trying to fight the money machine? Ya never know until ya try.

 

We should start a thread about how we don't love lawyers=politicians in training. I've known a lot of cops, and I prefer them to lawyers.

Rob

 

Cliff:

I understand your point and if I were one of many who got those tickets, I'd probably agree. However, nobody gets those tickets despite what the law says. There are a bunch of Ferraris in Marin County (location of Ferrari of San Francisco), at least 200 - 300 cars, and they don't ticket them. The jerk picked me out and decided to have a little fun. Well, I'm not a Christian, I don't turn the other cheek, so there is no way I'm letting him play that little game.

If I had to guess, once the fun starts, that will be the end of it. There is no way the DA in Marin will waste that many assets in fighting this. The courts there aren't overworked, and since those costs are going to be incurred, no matter what, I don't see it as wasted time.

I've had cops as friends, and usually they are pretty decent guys, but there are a few jerks, and the badge and gun make it worse.

Art

 

Art, believe it or not I really do think the front tag law is silly but I simply wish you would admit you make statements above that are based soley on your personal frustrations. Art do you really want everyone here to believe that you know for an undisputable fact that no other ferrari owner has ever been cited for failure to display a front tag in that jurisdiction? There is no way you can make that claim. As far as "letting him play that little game" I will be perfectly honest with you. How are you going to hurt him by going to court? We get paid to appear, you admitted you were in violation of the law. I am only telling you honestly that really doesn't hurt us. You will be helping him make more money. Lets say you even go all the way to the Supreme Court and they overturn the display law. How did that hurt the officer in anyway? I know you are mad at law-enforcement, I guess if you get personal satisfaction that way go for it and good luck.