Soviet 5th gen fighter takes flight

Mr. Gates, please grab the microphone.

Please do tell.

 

Here you go.
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Ralph- Judging from the configuration, it appears to be about a Gen 4.5 aircraft, not quite as stealthy as an F-22 or F-35, but incorporating stealth features and basic design. More than capable of kicking an F-15/16 or FA-18E/F rear end, though.

Interestingly, as you know, a good portion of the early stealth efforts on Tacit Blue and the F-117 were based on a Russian engineer's algorithms. The Soviets did not think his work was that important.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Terry,

Exactly.



The question is the #'s game.

My guess, they will build more than 187 airframes.

The F-35 ? It has already hit a bump in the road. A significant # of airframes will be sacrificed, in an effort to fix the program.

 

Ralph- Unfortunately very true. The decision makers in Russia do not watch their programs get chipped away by Congress until they are extremely expensive, like ours do. From 722 to 187 on F-22As, and from 132 to 22 on B-2As. What a joke.

North Viet-Nam just bought Su-30s that are nearly as good as our F-15Cs. Kinematically, maybe superior.

Incidentally, I bet the vertical tail surfaces will nearly double in size before this aircraft is fielded. Interestingly, the aircraft does not look like the vision to the rear will be that good, unless they have rear-facing EO/IR cameras.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I'll bet that Secretary Gates will say that since it took the F-22 over 7 years to go from first flight to IOC, he doesn't expect to see these in service until 2017. Somehow I don't think it'll take the Russians quite that long. And has been suggested, they will not stop at 187 airplanes, since I think that they'll try to sell the airplane to anyone who's interested.

That color drawing is rather inaccurate when compared to the photos. As small as the verticals are on the aircraft, they are larger than on the drawing, and the canopy profile looks quite different as well.

 

I could expound on this in so much detail it would make your mind just want to take a crap but unfortunately it would also get me fired or jailed. So, I will follow this thread with great interest and wisely not comment other than to say... that 187 plane limit thing WILL bite us in the ass. And that you can quote me on... but then you knew that already. When things all around you seem to be run backwards and counter to logic and common sense, there's a reason for it.

 

And the thanks go to our Congress, our Senate, Mr. Gates, and oh ya, that Obama dude that is helping us soooo much.

 

Is this P&R?

 

Early leaks indicated that it was intended to be a low level, head on air-to-ground attack configuration, not an air superiority fighter. It appears so.

Yes, basic design. Those circular exhaust nozzles will certainly give away it's radar signature. This is their first stealth bird, I'm sure they will improve as they discover more technology.

I'll put my money on the Superhornet in air-to-air..."target locked, Fox Three"

 

For the uninitiated, what about the design indicates that it is geared towards attack rather than air superiority?

Edit: layman's guess - seeming lack of vectorable thrust?

 

Early Russian press releases were stating an attack role, seems much has changed since the first flight.
Here's some updated specs, featuring.... the trust vector engine
http://warfare.ru/?linkid=2280&catid=255

Sukhoi Press Release, Translated

The PAK FA is still an unfinished product, I'm sure more changes are to come.

 

So far, the Raptors have cost the US over $300 million apiece with all of the upgrades and modifications. The Raptor has a long range ordinance capacity of "X", and Russian policy is to just buy "X+2" planes for every Raptor built. It may be the best plane in the sky, but it can't defeat a massively outnumbered force.

 

That's where the USAF YAL-1 comes in. The rules of aerial combat have changed. Whatever the YAL-1 didn't take out, the Raptors can mop up what's left.

 

Has the U.S. even budgeted funds, for the YAL-1 program ?

I thought I read, that it has been cut from the budget ?





Don't underestimate the potential innovation of your enemies.

Yes, it is not the F-22. Perhaps an updated SU-35, with a dash of stealth ? However, in large #'s, it will cause serious concerns.


The Mig-15 was better than the F-86A, in several key capabilities.

No other American or European fighter, had a chance against the Mig-15, in the early 1950's.

 

While the MIG-15 did come as a huge surprise and had some distinct advantages over the Sabre, it didn't come even close to sweeping the skies of all opposition. In fact, F-86s had a kill ratio of ~ 2:1 vs Russian-piloted MIG-15s. The shock of discovering the MIG definitely colored assessments, but the Russian aircraft did not come close to giving the Russian/Korean/Chinese air superiority over anything but a small (MIG alley) slice of N.Korea for a limited time.

 

It is not the fault of the airplane. The fault lies with the doctrine of the USSR, for the use of a fighter, in the theater of operations. The U.S. did spend more time developing fighter pilots. I am in no way pro Soviet, and or Russia ! lol.

It is the same with the Ta-152 and Fw-190. Both of these aircraft were the best piston-engine airplanes on the battlefield, at the time of introduction.

 

The level of stupidity amazes me.

By looking at a few pictures of the prototype you labelled him a 4.5 gen fighter ????
No **** ? why not 4.7 or 4.8 + ?

Yes yes I know, you are americans and nobody else can create something as great as a 5th gen fighter, surely not the stupid russians.

Not as stealthy as the F-22 & F-35 just by looking at some pics ?
But i`am sure you already calculated the RCS for PAK-FA.


And that guy with the "alghoritms" , physicist to be more precise is Petr Ufimtsev.

(Fundamental of the Theory of diffraction, and Theory of edge diffraction in electromagnetics).


But of course the russians are too stoopid to use their own data to build a stealth plane.

I`am looking to hear how awesome PAC3 is compared to S400

 

Well, it doesn't look like this PAK thing has gold put into the cockpit glass. I know the Raptor has that to reduce its radar signal. If it didn't have the gold, the radar would bounce right off the pilot and give it away...at least that's what I've been told. The F16 has a little of this as well to help reduce its signal. Huge canopy compared to the other stealth craft that I've seen in person.

 

We must not lose the big picture here: it`s the prototype.

Service jet (2015 - probably) will have other characteristics, engines and so on, just look (externally at least) and compare YF-22 with F-22.