Another Fchatter not held in high regard

Sadly, he has scrubbed his user page. No one knows his name so it will be easy for him to do it again.

 

Oh, what a sad little thread this is clicky.








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CW has a very good point. Most of us have been car or bike guys for a very long time. Most of us have been burned more than once. As Reagan put it, "Trust, but verify."

I'm not excusing what happened here. I'm just saying I never trust anybody who I haven't done business with before. Even then, you get burned.

Dale

 

The part I have trouble with at this point is Greg's assertion that "false statements were made."

I, for one, would never remain silent if I felt that false statements had been made about me.

Never mind whether the wheel is usable; if the buyer's not happy, refund his money - or at least make arrangements to do so. "Sell it on eBay" doesn't cut it.

So MB learned a hard lesson, but it's not one that he should have learned here. The Ferrari community is a small one, and we need to conduct ourselves with some integrity.

If this discussion has been "one sided," as a few posters have stated, it is only because Greg refused to respond. If there were "another side of the story," it should have been told.

And to those who say that MB "should have" practiced due diligence and asked for photos in advance, I say that what he SHOULD have done was to make the very reasonable assumption that a wheel sold as being in "Good Condition" would, at the very least, still be functional as a wheel. Never mind what two professional wheel specialists said about it; if MB feels that it isn't safe to use, he's entitled to a refund.

If I've ever seen a case where there are no grey areas, this is it.

 

I think your logic was pretty sound. It could have happened to any of us. It would be nice to assume that Ferrari enthusiasts are above this kind of nonsense, but I've seen some very upstanding guys devolve when money got tight...

 

It's the only thing he can say.

 

I wanted to chime in as a NON owner and a 6 year member of this community. I take my online reputation VERY seriously. I have looked at a few cars locally for out of town buyers and I look them over probably more critically than I would if I were buying it for myself. While I know it is unlikely someone would buy a $100k car based only on my cosmetic evaluation but if I say it is in good condition then it absolutely will. Sure most of my posts are in the motorcycle section and the bikini thread but would like to think those posts have value too.

I have met other members here at Cars and Coffee and other events and I like the fact that the Fchat community will welcome non owners with open arms and will defend the members of the community without mercy when wronged.

Someday I will become an owner and it will be with the information and knowledge that I have obtained here. The second most exciting moment of the process will be the post here exclaiming "I bought one!"

It is unfortunate that this happened but it does illustrate how close a community of people, most of which have never met in person, can get. For this I thank you for letting me hang out with you guys and girls.

 

MB, you have nothing to apologize about. Like you say, "buyer not happy" - especially when it's two Ferrarichat members - and a return should have been forth coming without a lot of BS. It's that simple; it will be that simple tomorrow and in 10 years. You aren't in the wrong here.

Sure, maybe it would have been wise to get a photo. But, as you point out, when dealing with other members of Ferrarichat.com, there is an unspoken understanding that no body is going to screw anyone else over around here.

A few people have suggested banning 308GTS. But frankly, there's no need for that; he's effectively banned himself as far as Fchat goes...

Ray

 

"At this point can I ask a practical question: are we going to do Stonehenge tomorrow night?"

 

See, I guess the not being able to trust a well respected, long standing member of F-Chat is still worrying me. I BOUGHT my 360 spider based on what a few well respected, long time members here told me after eyeballing and driving it for me while it was at Algar. As expected, the reports were bang-on accurate.

Now would this incident put me off doing things that way again? Nah, probably not, but it still makes me shake my head.

 

Yep, he hasn't posted in 2 days---Hopefully if he does return most will remember this and either put him on ignore or disregard any of his posts...

I myself have conducted transactions with users here based on there standing in this community as well as the length of time and posts on here. I woud of probably done the exact same thing Matt did w/o pics as the seller has been a member in good standing for a LONG time.... Always thought that counted for something, I guess for some it does not.. I have learned a lesson myself from all this....

 

it's not even a case of buyer not happy, it's more a case of buyer got scammed! It sure sounds like the seller was jumping for joy when he unloaded that corroded piece of metal for $400, then in effect said 'now you're stuck with it!'. Buyer not happy would be more like a disputed cosmetic condition...this is really outright scamming by not taking it back.

But I do agree, there's no reason or grounds to ban the seller. Hopefully he has future positive technical contributions to the forum...I just doubt anyone who's seen this thread would buy anything from him

 

With that, I think the thread has wound down and there's little more to be said. The thread will be closed in 3 hours; so if there's anything else to be added, do it now. If either party finds something new to say later, the thread can be reopened by their request.

 

+1

 

what i find fascinating is the fact that in 308gts's mind, he believed he could reply the way he did and receive support and understanding.

308.... it is not too late. if you make a genuine heart-felt apology, you can still make things right. people are forgiving by nature (do a search on matteo's "second chances")

 

True, true. We've all screwed up in life and mad bad calls along the way.

I think most business minded individuals can respect a person who can admit a mistake and try to make it right. I'm the first to admit that I've made some poor decisions along the way. I think there is even a thread on Ferrarichat where I detail walking out of a Thai restaurant without paying for the food when I was younger (and the hell I caught from my peers and girlfriend at the time). I went back later and admitted my blunder and made an effort in the final hour to regain at least some face; then learned from my mistake and moved on.

I've often said that the road to integrity is littered with mistakes.

If I were in GTS308's shoes right now, I'd send Daniel $400 by paypal and make a public apology. We don't need any more BS about "if the wheel is okay" or "you should have gotten pictures". If GTS308 is reading this, my suggestion would be to just man up to the fact that that rim should have never been sold, apologize to MB privately and reimburse Daniel.

That pile of junk rim isn't worth your reputation on Ferrarichat. No amount of money is.

Ray

 

That is the 100% truth. The World can be a small place sometimes.

 

Man.. I just read this thread begining to end; what a mess!

I bought a part on alfabb.com and when I asked the guy for pictures he said "they're perfect. Send me your address and I'll ship 'em to you. If you don't like them, ship them back. If you do, send me a check" Then writes and says "I shipped 'em through my company, so I'll cover shipping" NOW THAT"S A STAND UP SALE. Too bad this 308GTS guy didn't have a little more character.

 

+1

I recently sold a domain name for $50,000. The buyer wanted to go through all sorts of non-sense because he was concerned that I might not send the domain name - since we had only e-mailed back and forth and spoken on the phone once. He wanted to use escrow.com, etc., etc.

Finally I just said, "Look, I've done million dollar deals on a hand shake, I'm not gonna screw you over $50K". Then I told him, "How about this, I'll just transfer the domain name to you and then once you have it, wire me the $50K. That way you don't have to trust me, I'm trusting you."

I sent the domain name, he sent the money. No need for escrow.com...

Ray

 

Before this thread is locked down, I just wanted to say Kudos again to Daniel at Ricambi America - his offer to buy the wheel to use as a table was one of the most noble gestures I've seen in very many years of doing business.

Hats off to Ricambi & Daniel - both fine examples of integrity and character in life and in business.

Ray

 

I am new to the Ferrari "Community" but, I am a grey old dog to the car and parts purchasing world. I owned a used car dealership in the '80's. I have to admit that I was one of those who viewed Ferrari owners as pompous and narcissistic. I found out how wrong I was with my first purchase of a Ferrari. I knew I did a few things wrong, though I thought I did most things right regarding the purchase. I received many pictures. Talked to the seller's representative at length, asked as many questions as I could. Due to my work I travel a lot and could not find time to look at the car before I bought it. It was for sale by a dealer and I did not want anyone to buy it out from under me. So I bought it sight unseen. I sent the dealer all cash. Over 28k. I signed all the "AS IS" sales contracts through the mail. He had my money in his bank for almost three weeks before I was able to see the car the first time. He had told the owner that the car was sold. After I saw and drove the car,(it was an '82 400i), it was not what I had expected. I expressed my concern to him but inside I knew my money was gone and I was stuck with the car. He said that the owner would fix anything I was concerned with at no extra charge. I told him I just did not feel comfortable with the car. Instead of saying,"Well its yours. You bought it. We have a signed AS IS contract. You need help loading it onto your trailer?" He said, " I don't want any customer of mine to be uncomfortable or unhappy with a purchase from me. I will refund the purchase price in full and tear up your Contract". I did not know at first if I really heard this or if I was just fantasizing that I did. I thought, are you kidding me? He refunded every cent. This was my first exposure as to the high degree of integrity and honesty within the Ferrari community. I eventually ended up with a 308 and part of the joy and fun of owning it is meeting and talking to other Ferrari people. I have never before been involved with a group of people where honesty and integrity was so important. This Ferrari guy refunded $28,926.00 to me so I would not have a bad Ferrari experience. I just cannot understand how someone who has so much invested in this great fraternity could choose to walk away from it for 400 bucks.

 

Great story.

I think a big part of the reason people around here can afford Ferraris is because in business they have character and integrity. You don't get to the top without it - and if you do, you won't stay there long.

When I bought my first Ferrari from Evan at Ferrari of San Francisco, I expressed concern that I might not like the car after I got it home. I'll never forget... he said, "If you buy the car and don't like it, bring it back tomorrow and we'll give you your money back - that's how confident I am that you'll love this car". That was the first time I had ever experienced a salesmans telling me something like that. Needless to say, the 355 was a keeper

When I sold my 360, the buyer wanted me to hold it. He asked how much of a deposit I wanted and I told him 10%. I also told him that if he came out here (he had to fly across the country to see the car) and decided not to buy the car, I would refund the entire deposit without question.

Prior to that (or maybe it was the same person, I can't remember now), someone had expressed interest in the car but was hesitant to pull the trigger. I told them if they bought the car and changed their mind after it arrived, they could send it back and I would refund all their money. The bottom line was I didn't want someone buying my car from me and being unhappy about the transaction in anyway. That's how important my reputation - both on and off line - is to me. I think it shocked a couple of people, who were considering purchasing my 360, when I told them that on the phone.

Ray

 

Closing the thread now. As mentioned the principals or other interested parties, such as Daniel, may ask for the thread to be reopened at any time.