Second hand value of carbo ceramic

Well I hesitated and lost the chance to buy a very nice 2006 spider but it has defined "my" market price for these cars. Another one has come along but it's about $7k more and has carbo-ceramic brakes; an $18k option according to the window sticker.

Are they worth that premium both in terms of driving and resale?

 

Go with the CCBs. There's a reason they're standard on the new 458s. You will notice the difference at how hard they bite and scrub speed. Another positive feature about them is they do not leave brake dust. You can pound on them and they don't fade.

I was skeptical before owning a car with them, but after my experience, I won't buy a car without them. When I first got the Scud, I found I was cutting off too much speed going into corners as a result of the efficiency of the brakes.

 

I have them and they're great. They stop excellent (they do grab a bit at very low speeds), don't make any squeels, and have no brake dust.

Are they worth it? Well, isn't the best sports car in the world worth the best brakes in the world?

Let's put it this way..there's a reason why they put them standard on the CS and Scuderia....

 

Negotiate away the $7K difference.

Mike

 

Well, you can try that but I wouldn't walk away from a car I really liked for a few grand.. especially when we're talking about added value.

 

They're nice to have, look really cool but with regular driving, you likely don't need them. As stated above, little to no dust which is nice but they cost a fortune if you have to replace them. Fortunately, they will probably outlast the car.

 

I have CCB's on my 997 Turbo and they are great. I used to think the stock steelies with Porterfield pads on my 360 were pretty good, but now I find myself putting my foot through the floor trying to stop the car!

 

The carbon ceramics on my 430 blow the doors off my steel rotors on my 996 turbo! I'll never go back to steel!

 

I've never personally owned a car with CCB's, but I've heard the cost of the break job (rotors) is staggering. Is this the case?

 

That depends on your point of view. If they last 3 or 4 times as long as steel brakes in normal driving, then the cost difference isn't as great. And, given that the average car is driven about 5K miles a year, the replacement expense is years in the future.

If you track the car often, I would bet it could get expensive very fast.

 

My local dealer quoted me 2900. for rotors and pads on my 430. I've heard numbers as much as 10X that for the cc's. Granted they should last a lot longer though there are reports of cracking, etc. requiring replacement. CCs do feel better under hard use but stopping distances are actually a function of the tires not the brakes. The steel brakes aren't exactly crap. I had no fade at all at ROA which is murder on brakes, even when the wear indicator came on. I told my instructor and he said they still felt good from the passenger seat and go ahead with a few more laps which I did. The ccs do look a lot cooler.

Dave

 

We're not going to get into another one of these F1 vs 6 speed disagreements again?

We are both right. There is no perfect solution but they do work better or they wouldn't be on the Enzo, CS, or Scuderia. For a 7 grand increase in price and the very good chance that they won't need to be changed for a very long time, it's not a bad thing to have on a car.

 

I have heard a brake (break the bank) job can cost $25k or more!! if you need rotors, they do look very very cool though. All in all, I would say they add nothing to the value of the car, might even be worth less than steel brakes. It might be interesting if someone comes out with a steel rotor replacement for the CCB's. IMHO.

 

Not withstanding the cost difference, I fel the CC's have no advantage over steel rotors for street driving. Opinions vary for track stuff.
One important aspect of the CC's on the street. They do not work well until there is considerable heat in the brakes. If you need to make a "panic" stop at 60 mph before the rotors are warmed up, you will have a serious problem getting the car stopped safely.

 

On this, I totally disagree.

 

I've tested this in 2 safe locations with my Scud-and it's a fact, at least with my car.

 

It might be more of a function of the brake pads than the rotors - although I don't have a lot of experience with CCB (actually zero . With my 355, I installed larger F40/F50 size brembo brake rotors F/R. The pads I ran on the street were a compound that took a little heat. The first stop was a little longer all right, but after that they were fine.

From what the engineers at Brembo told me, the pads have the biggest effect in this area (at least when using steel rotors).

Ray

 

The other thing about CCBs is that they need to be properly seated.

I've got some incredible steel brakes, and some incredible CCBs. They are on different cars, so I can't compare apples to apples, but as I stated earlier, I'll take the CCB option if available from now on.

 

It is a beautiful thing when I wash the wheels and there is no brake dust and assorted crud on the wheels, calipers, lugs, inside barrel of wheel, etc. Plus they look fantastic. This becomes obvious when compared side by side to a car with standard brakes.

 

Thanks all, good input.

 

+1 Totally disagree too. The CCBs are the best option to have on such a car and it's rewarding all the time, cold or hot weather, high or slow speed, dry or wet roads etc. I would never consider steel anymore on a F430 and after having test drove the F458, it would be even suicide drive such an incredible car without CCBs

 

A price difference of $10k or less for similar cars, except one with CCB and the other with conventional brakes, is a GREAT deal.

Porsche PCCB have been running for over 30,000 miles on the original rotors, some people have reached over 50,000 miles including track miles, and still on original PCCB rotors, just changes on brake pads.

Ferrari CCB rotors (made by Brembo) are strong. Most F430 don't get to see 50,000 miles or track time at all, so rotors are most likely not going to be replaced during the ownership time.

How many F430 here in this forum are running CCB, and how many have replaced their worn-out CCB rotors with new ones? Most likely nobody has replaced an entire set yet.

For cars that spend time at a racetrack, like the F430 Challenge, they still get a long life from CCB rotors in racing conditions. Conventional rotors (cast iron) have to be replaced after 2 sprint races in most club/pro races. CCB lasts a lot longer in racing conditions (4 to 6 times longer), and way too long for street use.

Also, there is better performance in the Ferrari CCB, due to larger calipers and rotors.

So, a price difference of $10k or less is a great deal. $7k, killer deal.

 

No disagreement. The advantages and disadvantages are well known so it becomes a matter of how much someone is willing to pay. On the used market, I don't think I'd care either way since you are not really paying for the up front cost. When ordering new, I opted out. I could have bought a new Corolla for the price. My main point is that some people think the steel brakes are crap and they are most definitely not.

Dave

 

No way the steel brakes are crap and no way the CCB's are god's gift to man.

 

Good summation.

Dave