link: Porsche 911 Turbo S unveiled with 530 HP of goodness snippet: "... the twin-turbo flat-six is boosted to 530 horsepower, though it sips fuel at the same rate as the "base" Turbo's with its 500-horsepower engine. All that power and 516 pound-feet of torque are transferred to all four wheels now 19 inches in diameter with center locking nuts through Porsche's seven-speed PDK dual clutch gearbox, and a torque vectoring system helps point the car directly where the driver wants it. 0-62 miles per hour should arrive in 3.3 seconds and top speed is pegged at 196 mph. For comparison's sake, the almighty 911 GT2 makes the same amount of horsepower (530), is slower to 62 mph at 3.7 seconds, but beats the new 911 S at the top end with a 204-mph terminal velocity..." Image Unavailable, Please Login
love it! but compared to the standard turbo with the optional chronometer, there doesn't seem to be much difference in performance. sometimes the "s" simply buys you a different computer chip!
Traditionally, the X50 package yields about 7+ seconds on the North loop over the standard affair. The X50 is more than just an engine re-tune; but that is what sells the cars over the standard turbo
IMO the fact that P offers a standard and S is a bunch of bull! Frankly there should be just 1 Turbo w/ the best P has to offer. will there be a TT "RS" in '12?
GT2 is slower to 60 probably b/c it's a RWD car and the turbo S is an AWD, remember power it nutt'n w/o control, but then again that falls on the assumption that the driver knows a thing or two about getting off the line.
10 X what Kosmo said. When I read that the new turbo engine was 3.8 litres, but had much less boost than it's predecessor, I figured it would take for about 90 days for this to happen. This is going to be the most expensive ECU flash in history......LOL !!! If I sound sarcastic it is because I am.....Porsche has been going crazy with overpriced options for the last 10 years.......and the aftermarket has been killing them as a result. Example.......up here the factory 996TT "X50" package yielded an increase from 400 - 450 HP....woop dee f-in doo for $20K !!!! This later became the 996 Turbo "S" badged car in 2005........ I can give you an increase from 400-600 HP for $20K CAD........done it a few times......and it is just as reliable as OEM. I've got a guy running around with a car that we did this to at 15,000 KM and he now has 55,000 KM of hard driving on it.........the car has never burped a single engine/transmisison part yet, although he is on his third set of tires.
Again, the X50 upgrade is more than just a bump in power. Also, the reason for such upgrades... PAG from the onset test and design the Turbo as an X50; and then make it more civilized... only to release the said package near the end of the model's life span (IE... not dissimilar to a 360 CS vs. a 360 Modena, or 430 Scud vs. a F430). End the car with the most exciting version. This has been a successful marketing and sales model for some time. Also, your kidding yourself if you think Porsche's exuberant and expensive options list has been around for a decade. There are MANY OEM one of one's since the early 80's, and maybe late 70's. Even the 959 had an optional power bump separate from the S model... from 453 up to 570... but you sacrificed the sequential turbo for that outcome.
my last tt cab was an S and at the time you basically got a fully spec'd tt cab from the factory with an S badge for less money then specing one yourself. i ordered my S and it came in almost 18k less than a comparably equipped standard tt cab spec'd the same. they are also a much lower car run. typically porsche keeps the run to about 400 cars.
nthfinity........ Big deal........X50 was not enough for $20K from PAG, some internal trans work and engine mods, that's it ? A tranny needs a gear cluster to work, so you have to put in a gear cluster, if it is a little bit stronger it doesn't cost $5K for that or whatever.......like I said and ECU flash is an ECU flash, a car needs a muffler, so it has less back pressure, does that cost $5K more ??? LOL !!! ETC.....we've done 3 cars and there are hundreds running around the US that are tuned as such, or for more HP. Go find the threads on Porsche boards where guys have blown transaxles up or other parts afterwards......either few and far between, or they don't exist. I understand charging more.........but overcharging is BS. Why do you think the Ferrari aftermarket for engine mods is paper thin ? Because there is little to no room for improvement. You can argue that the market is also smaller and that is true, but car nuts will still buy stuff if it makes more HP and can be sold or more $$. Still waiting for someone to post an Edo Enzo dyno sheet FWIW...... Been selling P-cars since 1989 and they have just been getting crazier and giving you less. Paint to sample I can understand.......building a special engine by hand in the 80's or early 90's I get, or the 1994 964 Turbo S Flachbau car.......I have even communicated with Exclusiv one on one for a client (see FAQ thread)......but today.......LOL !!! Sorry I just ain't a believer anymore.....they are still great cars.......but in 98% of the cases they have lost their charm as new cars. You gotta buy them used. This Turbo S should be 650+ HP.......500 pounds lighter.......trick engine bits......carbon fiber panels......different design.....2 seats only........minimal push button crap inside.........etc, etc.........and $50K more......not 30 HP, wheels and a badge for $$$ more. Maybe that is what I should have said first.
Wow, as I said... porsche change more than just the engine tune. You now mention the gearbox (which is a PDK now as the only option (I find this unfortunate). The cars are faster around a track by a significant margin. I'll also agree that a 911 is best sold used. So are Mercedes.
That was my first reaction as well. Porsche deliberately handicapped the Cayman, so it seems they held back a bit on the Turbo -- i.e., could have made the car better from the start, but that would have interfered with Marketing's plans. If I had just splashed out the money for a new Turbo, I would be pretty pissed off. As far as value retention, I remember all the new 996 Turbo X50s loaded up with expensive options. They're a dime a dozen now...
you can buy 996 turbos for $50k all day long....50%+ price drop in 3-4 years. ouch. tremendous value for the money now.... I agree with the "managed competition" of Porsche's product line. way too many variants and there's always a better/faster/more exclusive car 6 months down the pipeline.
A fully loaded X50 996 was over $150k up to even $175k which was laughable. That's a 70% drop in 5 years. my 2005 TT S cab was only $144k which is what I meant about being a better package to purchase fully loaded at a better price. The PCCB's alone added like $10k at the time and that was some how sucked into the package price. X50 was another like $6k or so. All in all if the new 997 TT S is the same package it will come in cheaper with more options than any other 7TT. It's the last of a run typically so I wonder if this means the end of 997's?
OUCH! I don't know about the 997 product life cycle, usually a heavy revision (as they did w/ the '09s) is a sign of the halfway point of that model so I'm guessing a new one (998?) will be out 2012/2013?
The S version of the Turbo (or the S version of the Carrera) is simply the standard version, which you all think is too expensive, with a little horsepower and torque boost and the most expensive options (which you all think are way too expensive) added as standard equipment. In the Turbo S these include the center lock wheels, the PDK transmission (which, even in the base Turbo, is faster than the manual), and the torque vectoring handling option. Look at it this way: you can get a Turbo a lot cheaper than an S, instead of paying for the top of the line, there are ways to save and still have a heck of a car. When people add these options singly, they are often not given much credit on trade-in. With the full S package they get more of their money back when they sell it. Just look at the difference in the 1997 Turbo and the 1997 Turbo S. Not counting the 24 horsepower difference, the S version added all the carbon fiber options as standard equipment and the current used value is much higher than the same car, in Turbo form, with all the options added. Face it. A fully loaded, with all the new technology pieces Turbo is an expensive car. Lucky you if you can get 95% of that for thousands less.
And remember, too, that the 996 Turbos and X50s sold extremely well but were totally eclipsed by the 997 Turbos and now the 997.5 Turbos. If you are chasing technology or superiority, not unusual for purchasers of these über machines, newer is always better if you can afford it. Those who can't afford it can get a heck of a buy in performance, reliability and practicality in the used 996 or 997 Turbo. They're the bargain. Combine the reduction in sales brought about by the recession with the aging of the line and Porsche is smart to bring out new "excitement" in the line. They are not doing this for you and me, they are insuring the survival of the brand. And the high prices, just like they do for Ferrari, allow the company to stay up with and ahead of much larger auto manufacturers. Porsche would never run its car company for the benefit of a bunch of people looking out for their own best interests. They're a business, not a charity.
I agree that the Turbo S is a better deal all the way around. Even in the 996 variant they capture about 30% more. They are much more rare. Porsche does this on purpose. My 1997 TT S is worth more than double a standard 993 TT is. They are a lot more rare of a car than a 996 TTS though. Mine is 1 of 10 White ones in the world with less than 120 left in the world of all 993TT S's so that makes a difference. Rear seat delete is standard on the 993 TT S's and leather wrapped controls as well. The value of those is set by last Air Cooled top of the line car Porsche ever built. That will never change possibly why mine only has 4000 miles on it. 964 S's (90-94's) are double value as well. Very hard to find. Kosmo you could probably bet large money on Porsche making a 2012 GT2 ( what you call TT "RS") Porsche will continue to provide newer better versions as long as people are buying. That's one of the main reasons the resale is so low on their cars.
They didn't. The regular Turbo and all the other Carrera models, as well as the Cayenne, Boxster and Caymen all retain the manual transmission as standard equipment.
I know, but I didn't think they would even do it on cars like the Turbo S. I love Porsche and would still love the brand even if they put a manual to an end, but I don't think they ever will. Steve
The X50 option includes larger K24 turbos and larger fins on the intercooler (increases cooling efficiency to up to 10%). Turbo specs indicate that [factory] K16 turbos are good for up to 590hp (220kw/ea) while the K24's are good for up to 670hp (250kw/ea). If you would compare a Turbo w/ ECU flash w/ a Turbo S w/ ECU flash, which do you think would be more economical...? And, IIRC, the 996 Turbo S was only offered in 2005 and it was the only Turbo you could get. MSRP for a 2004 Turbo was 118.4k and MSRP for a 2005 Turbo S was 131.4k, a 13k difference, but you get: - PCCB - X50 powerkit (which includes a reinforced transmission) - turbo wheels painted in GT Silver Metallic (not the regular bright silver color) The PCCB is an 8k option and the X50 powerkit is a 17.5k option. If you added those 2 options on a 2004 Turbo, then it'll end up starting out at 143.9k. Because it's harder to increase power on an NA car than an F/I car. I guarantee you that you'll have equal difficulty in increasing power w/ a modern non-turbo Porsche. That's called a GT2. ///Michael
More bad news... Trannies are identical. Marketing 101. If they can get more why not charge more. "My Turbo is faster than your Turbo, I have the specs the salesguy gave me". A used 911 turbo is a great value. 996TT especially. No love for that car except those that know. Bulletproof.
