NEWS FLASH - John Corbani's Dino has sold!

But not to me - see below.

Last July, my wife and I flew down from Seattle to LA and then drove up to Santa Barbara to look at, drive, and PPI John Corbani's Dino. I also flew Scott M, and our mechanic, Carlo, down for the weekend to look at it with us. We met up with MikeyR (and his wife) and were able to use Mike's lift to inspect the car (after moving his Singer LeMans out of the way). I was prepared to make a cash offer well within spitting distance of what Candi wanted (she wanted about $99,000) for it.

Anyway, although I was prepared for some "unusual features," shall we say, on John's car, I decided in the end that I didn't want to take on a "project" Dino. I would have been more than happy to live with the Mustang Midnight Blue paint job (embedded fly included), the cobbled interior (as it was), the pretty much used up brakes, a bad shock or two, and the brittle Gotti's, because the engine and transmission were really sweet, and the car handled great. The reason I didn't bite was because underneath there was clear evidence that the car had been whacked pretty hard. And, although it seemed to drive and track straight and whoever worked on the alignment must have really fussed with it to get it to work, there were a lot of loose ends underneath. I had no intention to mess with the car, other than to fix some of the safety things that John had, understandably, allowed to just drift.

After figuring that I'd be looking at $20,000 to $30,000 to sort out things that needed to be sorted out with the frame and sheet metal underneath, replace the wheels to make them safe, repair the brakes, shocks, locate the missing AC components, and CLEAN it up, I decided that I didn't want to make what I believed would be a correct market adjusted offer on it because I didn't want to make Candi upset - she told me that she had received a low ball offer before. So, I told her that I'd just watch how things went. I told her that if she got an offer that she thought was too low that she could call me and we'd discuss it.

I kept on thinking about John's Dino, and I kept on searching on the internet for a blue 246GT.

Then, about 2 months ago, I spied a listing for a blue 246GT being hawked through a broker in Canada. I clicked on the listing and was surprised to see it was John's car. I was also VERY surprised to see it advertised as "unmodified," "no accidents," and "95,000 miles." Those things weren't simple puffery. In fact I was shocked. I mean, John's car was featured in a great article in FORZA magazine with great photos that showed the Gotti wheels with the missing hub center caps. John talked about how when he bought the car it was white, that it had been in several accidents, including a BIG one when an SUV hit it - it was because of that accident that he was able to afford to get it painted. The FORZA article proudly advertised the mileage as likely the highest mileage Dino (NO DOUBT) around - if I recall correctly, it had 185,000 miles or so when the article appeared. When we looked at it, it had 195,000 miles. What a crock that ad was. Further, anyone who followed John's posts would have known that John made a bunch of "innovations" to the car - it was pretty heavily modified, albeit in some subtle ways. I think that the ad appeared on a website primarily aimed at UK and European buyers - something like classiccarsforsale.co or .com . . . . It also appeared on Jameslist where the broker is/was The Car Experience in Toronto, Canada. Interestingly, the price of it seems to shift depending upon what portal you use to find it. On The Car Experience website it is listed for 77,500 Euros (about $109,000 USD now), while on oodle.com it was listed for $77,500 USD. It is now listed on a website for F.A. Automobile ("We have offices in Paris on Avenue Kleber, 2 min. aways from the Champs Elysées." for 92,000 Euros). The F.A. Automobile listing pretty much repeats what The Car Experience ad says.

Just about the time that I saw the ad, f328nvl ("John") started a thread here in the Dino section entitled "An Ethical Question" regarding what you should, or shouldn't, do when you had knowledge that a car was being misrpresented. Several writers commented along the lines that those with first hand knowledge, not just "I heard from somebody who heard from somebody that so and so's car is a piece of crap . . . ." should speak up. Other's urged caution. Dave M (dm_n_stuff for you newbies here) and I exchanged rather voluminous emails about this issue and Corbani's Dino in particular (in fact, good ol' Dave emailed me that I had "waffle-stomped" him - IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE GROSSED OUT, DON'T LOOK UP EXACTLY WHAT "WAFFLE-STOMPING" MEANS ON GOOGLE OR ONE OF THOSE SLANG DICTIONARIES). He urged me to consider saying something, but I held back because I didn't want to mess up Candi's sale of the car, and besides, I figured the words in the ad were the broker's - and besides, as stupid as this may sound, even though by the time we had finished driving JC's Dino and had gone over it with a fine-toothed comb, and we knew what was messed up, I was still interested in it. Because, other than the safety issues, I would have liked having it as a driver and a true survivor. I sent a PM to f328nvl, about my own dilemma in this case, but he never emailed me back.

If I had said anything and then later bought the car myself, I would have appeared to have been pretty much of an ass and a manipulator. So, like I said, I pretty much kept my mouth shut.

Surprisingly though, the ad morphed a little just after I emailed Dave about it. The mileage language changed from "95,000 miles" to "95,000 miles appear on the odometer," and the "no accidents" language disappeared. It also reads "Original condition, no modification (except radio and speakers)." Does that mean that color changes, no AC brackets, no AC compressor, no front batchboard, etc. qualify a car as being an "original condition, no modification" car?

So, it comes down to this. About 2 weeks ago I had asked MikeyR if he could swing by and check on the car. He stopped by a few times, and saw it sitting outside still, but no one answered when he knocked on the door. Then, a little after 5:00 p.m. Wednesday night, Mike called me and told me that the car was gone. He knocked on the door again, but again no answer. Mike went to the golf pro shop next door and asked. The woman running the shop told Mike that it had sold last week and was picked up over the weekend. It was loaded onto a flatbed.

Anyway, I sure hope it went to a good home, and that the buyer had his/her eyes open when he/she bought it and knew what he/she was getting. If not, there really is no excuse because John's Dino was well documented here and in the FORZA article - the 195,000 miles, the accidents, the multiple modifications, etc. If the buyer ends up not liking it, I'd be willing to consider it again . . . but certainly not for $109,000 (or more).

Well, on the other hand, maybe, just maybe, I would.

 

Thanks for the story. The final saga?

 

You left out that it was quite a HEATED discussion.

In the end, I believe we both understood each others position on the issue.

I just hope the buyer of John's car did a thorough PPI, and read the Forza article, where much of what the ad states is laid to waste.

This whole thing illustrates that no ad should be taken at face value, and a complete PPI is essential in the purchase of older cars. I know Jim S and I disagree on this issue too.

Good luck to the new owner, and if you're out there, REPLACE THOSE WHEELS ASAP.

And John, if you're somehow watching this, I still miss you and your posts.

DM

 

I'm sure we will hear more, hopefully from the buyer.

 

Let me put a JRV quote on this:

"These cars are just looking for a fresh wallet"......

I'm glad Candi got some kind of deal done. I can only imagine the emotional involvement a "reminder" like that would be, parked out front every day....

 

1. A prior "discussion" might have been a little hot (about a WTB posting that was indirectly related to Corbani's car, and come to think of it, that was where the waffle-stomping comment arose), but -

2. Dave and I were pretty much in agreement about how in an ideal world it would be great if we all posted what we really knew to be the truth, not just the typical "I heard from a guy, who knew somebody who . . . ." But the reality is that people don't want to get sued, nor do people want to risk hurting someone who they really know, rather than someone who they have only had a remote acquaintance with via the Internet.

3. The first ad disappeared pretty quickly - I have tried to find a remnant of it, but although I have the original link, it is now a dead end and it seems to have been scrubbed pretty well. I am going to try to see if a can find the original ad through Internet archives or the "wayback" machine.

4. I agree with the notion of getting the best inspection you can if you really need the car to have no major faults - although, depending upon the car, you won't need one if you can tell that the condition of the car is s%^* and you are prepared to bite the bullett and not complain. But if you want to try to avoid some major surprises, GET A SERIOUS PPI.

5. All of us who inspected and drove John's Dino agree on this one thing - CHANGE THOSE WHEELS SOON (LIKE, IMMEDIATELY) BEFORE YOU KILL YOURSELF OR SOMEONE ELSE.

6. Amen.

Mark

 

Rumor - it was supposedly bought by someone from Europe, although it is unclear if it is leaving the US. When I get confirmation I will post again, unless someone beats me to it.

Mark

 

Im about 15mins from The Car experience and do PPI's for them all the time. I would think he didnt have that car in his possession as I never saw it yet I did a PPI on a 288GTO for him not too long ago. He gets some pretty interesting consignments.

 

Gents,
A friend of mine recently spoke to John's wife. As I understand it, she told him that the car was sold in late December to someone in Germany. When he found out that the car was no longer available, he didn't think it appropriate to pursue any details. I'll call him in the morning & let you know if he has anything to add.
Coop

 

nobody in Germany I do know, I haven`t heared anything
To import a US-model 246 GT into Europe doesn`t really make sence...
They are less value here compared to European-models.
regards Matthias

 

Apologies, I didn't reply because to be honest I also didn't know what to say. I'm in the UK and I wasn't alluding to this car in my original post.

 

DinoGTS - great post - well formulated and with class.

Dave - Allow me to add, "Respectively disagree." And after reading DinoGTs's post, I realize that the PPI issue really depends on the buyer. An experienced Dino buyer or owner likely knows the car well enough to evaluate under the surface. A novice would do well with a PPI. But I still believe that knowledge of a car's warts merely prepares a potential buyer for future fun, and should not be used as justification not to buy. If I could open the Sunday newspaper and choose from 30 like-models, then sure, pick the best. However, when the passion arises to purchase a Dino, unless you are extraordinarily patient, take what you can get and fix it up. Therein lies the fun.

I much prefer to purchase the worst example, as this provides immediate incentive to take it off the road and do a "Jon" on it. A "good" or "nice" example can add up to be the death of a thousand paper cuts. Each little thing that hiccups leads one to spend money and time. Treat it once and drive it worry free forever.

Jim S.

 

Hear Hear.
I looked at three Dino's over a 6 month period and actually ended up buying the third car i saw partly out of frustration!
I could'nt have afforded a fully restored car at the time and knew that being of the "Fussy" disposition i would pull the car totally to bits over a long period and rebuild it.
The car i bought was definately the worst i saw but at least i can sleep soundly at night now knowing every nut and bolt and every nook and cranny in my car has been sorted!

J C's car we all know was WELL used and i would think now requires a total rebuild.
It certainly deserves it.

 

Nothing to add.
Coop

 

I just emailed F.A. Automobile in Paris to ask if they actually bought JC's Dino since it is listed on their website, or if they are selling it on consignment.

 

Thanks, Jim. First time I can remember ever being congratulated on a post.

 

Candi Corbani called me this morning from New Orleans where she's enjoying Mardi Gras. She told me that JC's Dino was sold to a buyer from Germany who lives near the Netherlands/German border towards the north end of the border. She sold it through the Car Experience in Toronto. She said that they have access to a worldwide clientele base, and that the staff speaks several languages. She told me that they were very easy to work with, and that John's Dino sold within about a week and a half from when she consigned it to them. She got what she wanted, perhaps even a little bit more. She said that the buyer flew in from Germany at the end of December to drive the Dino, and that it was picked up and shipped about the middle or a little towards the end of January. She said that she had told the buyer to read the FORZA article. She said that he did, and that he was excited about the car because he apparently is also an engineer, she thinks, and he thought it was great that JC had contributed so much about the car (and Dinos, in general) on FCHAT (presumably he knows about Corbani's Corner). Candi said that when she was contacted by the buyer, she sent him several photos of the condition of the interior, the exterior, and other issues with the car.

I told Candi that the car was listed as recently as February 13, 2010 for sale on the F.A. Automobile (Paris) website for 92,000 Euros. She said she had no idea about that, and that she believed it may have been an example of someone perhaps listing a car in the hopes that someone would contact them and that they in turn would contact the true seller or broker while trying to get their pound of flesh out of it. Obviously, there seems to be a lot of that happening on the Internet.

I sent an inquiry to F.A. Automobile as follows:
-----Message d'origine-----
De : [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] ***DON'T TRY THESE [email protected] address as I have masked them***
Envoyé : dimanche 14 février 2010 00:17
À : [email protected] ***THIS ADDRESS IS REAL***
Objet : Blue Dino for sale on your website

Hello:

You have a blue Dino listed for sale on your website that was John Corbani's. Did you buy it? Or, is it for sale on consignment? Assuming that it is part of your inventory, when do you expect it to arrive and to be available for inspection in Paris?

Thank you -

Mark
----------
and got the following response:
----------

Hello, sorry, the Blue Dino is sold. Regards

----------

Funny how that works.

Now, Matthias wrote that it doesn't make much sense to import a U.S. Dino into Europe because they aren't as highly valued in Europe. That might have been the case when all of the U.S. cars had all of their pollution control equipment on them and large marker lights, but as many of us know in the U.S., a lot of Dinos in the U.S. no longer have the heavy and power absorbing pollution control equipment still on them, and the marker lights (and other aesthetic elements) can be converted over to Euro specs fairly easily with a little bit of body work involved. And, as Scott.Mac commented to me, the economy in Europe may be a lot more vigorous than in the U.S. now (not even considering the exchange rate) such that cars in the U.S. now possibly represent very good values to European buyers, even when shipping, taxes, and the like are considered. As the auction pros (or dummies) say on TV - "well bought and well sold."

I hope we hear from the new owner soon!

Mark

 

Now listed as "sold" from its sales place in France too
http://www.fa-automobile.com/detail-vente.php?car-for-sale=Ferrari&id=6&v=1399

 

Scott,

If you look at the post that I last made two months ago on 02/15/2010, just above your post, you'll see that the fa-automobile site was likely a quasi-arbitrage scamming/phony listing, and when I pushed them about the listing for Corbani's Dino, they suddenly replied that it was "sold," and they also listed it as sold shortly after responding to my email. To the best of my knowledge, and Candi Corbani's knowledge, John's Dino was not re-sold through fa-automobile. It is a little hard for me to call out an apparently well-known dealer, but I believe they were playing the market and I caught them at it and called them out.

Mark
P.S.
Scott - I don't know if you did this on purpose or not, but with this posting, I just reached 1000!! BFD. . . .

 

I just have to say I miss seeing this Dino around town.

John would drive it everywhere and I saw it all the time including seeing it Home Depot with 2x4's sticking out the passenger window, now that is daily driving !

 

Hi Mike -

You know, I wish BOTH the Dino AND John, especially John, were still around.

Mark

 

I would recommend that all of the threads in the "Corbani's Corner" sub-forum be permanently locked as a memorial tribute.

This would prevent newbies from posting rookie questions therein, awaiting John to reply.

Cheers - DM

 

I believe that Corbani's Corner is locked. And, I haven't seen anyone posting anything asking for a reply from John (RIP, in case a rookie here doesn't realize he is dead). This particular thread is focused on what has happened to his car, and I don't see a reason why these kinds of threads or postings should somehow be locked, if that is what you meant.

If anything, John would be encouraging discussions to continue, especially when they are focused on enjoying our Dinos and work-arounds to keep them up and running!

Mark

 

Actually it is not and there have been a few newbs post in, but I say that's okay, we'll see it 'top up' and go 'round to check the place, as it were....

I still have all the PMs in my InBox from coachi, and enjoy reading over them from time to time....
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Corbani's Corner itself IS pretty well locked up or is being monitored and recent posts have been deleted - the last post there was on 10/25/2009, just over 6 months ago.