Very strange ....... | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Very strange .......

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by TZ 750, Feb 8, 2010.

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  1. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #26 TZ 750, Feb 11, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
    See below
     
  2. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    My thinking was to put the thread into the
    most general section, so as to "inform" as
    many Fchat folks as possible, and to get
    as much "information" as possible..........
     
  3. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 27, 2003
    73,451
    MidTN
    Full Name:
    DGS
    From my reading (I'm sure Brian can correct any errors), it seems you're dealing with two separate, but related systems, here.

    The literature tells me that the 456M uses gas shocks, dynamically controlled as part of the active suspension system.

    Then there's the rear auto-leveling system, which runs off the power steering pump.

    From the accumulated fluid, perhaps the auto-leveling system had been leaking for a while, and it might have caused the active suspension to over-correct, causing repeated overpressure conditions in the shock, until the metal fatigued and ruptured.

    Just a guess. (Okay, a scientist would say "hypothesis consistent with the collected data". ;))

    It'd probably be a good idea to have both systems checked over, especially as this car is new to you. If this is the only 456M you've driven any distance, you wouldn't have any comparison to tell if it wasn't working quite right.
     
  4. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    I am getting into the rest of the rear suspension
    and the associated ride-height gear.

    Everything looks straight forward,
    just expensive to replace.

    Anybody know of somebody that tests the
    accumulators for this or any Ferrari ?

    Are there replacement shocks, like Ohlins or Koni
    that bolt in, with or without the load leveling features ?

    Maybe something from 550 or 575 ?

    Other than the cost, this seems a fun way
    to "get aquainted " with working on the car.
     
  5. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912

    A distinct possibility !

    I am looking into that,
    while waiting parts from RICAMBI.
     
  6. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #31 TZ 750, Feb 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Quite sharp to pick up on that !

    At one time, I had the largest collection of
    Yamaha TZ750's in the world,
    even more than the Yamaha Factory.

    I still race them from time to time.

    Below is how my collection looked a few years ag.

    The collection once totaled twenty four (24) complete
    bikes. The awards in the background each represent
    either a nationala or world championship.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  7. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #32 TZ 750, Feb 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yes.

    This is how the collection looks now.

    I have saved only the world championship winning bikes.

    Scott
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912

    This was a very helpful clue .

    I now have the shock on the bench,
    and am in the process of disassembly.

    As soon as I develope my digital photo's,
    I will give you a surprise.
     
  9. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #34 TZ 750, Feb 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  10. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #35 TZ 750, Feb 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Shock well disassembled, cleaned well.

    Bag protects the "evidence."

    Rings won't remove because the
    "exploded" tube is swolen and distorted.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #36 TZ 750, Feb 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    A peek inside the exploded tube.

    You can see the shock piston.

    I had no idea what I was seeing
    at this point, but a knowledgable
    shock person will be getting ideas.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  12. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #37 TZ 750, Feb 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Found an old dash instrument light,
    wired in a battery, and presto, a light small enough
    to fit into the hole that receives the oil from
    the accumulator ans self-leveling system.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  13. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #38 TZ 750, Feb 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Put in the light and looked through
    the break in the shock body.

    Hard to see, but I think I see something
    that is not supposed to be there.

    Going to have to take the shock
    apart to find out what is there

    Yes, I know the photo doesn't show squat,
    but with my eye at the tube,
    I could see lots better
    than the photo shows.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #39 TZ 750, Feb 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The decision was to open up the shock,
    and have a look inside.

    I didn't have all the correct tools to remove
    the shaft directly by removing all the lock rings
    at the top of the shock.

    Also, the adjuster rings were having to come off
    this shock to be used on the next shock,
    but they could not go off the bottom,
    because of the explosion.

    Therefore, we decided to cut the tube in the threads,
    to preserve the "evidence." First, we made a
    locating mark on the tube, so we could reconstruct
    the "registration" of the two parts of the tube later.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  15. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #40 TZ 750, Feb 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  16. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #41 TZ 750, Feb 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #42 TZ 750, Feb 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  18. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #43 TZ 750, Feb 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,288
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Very cool collection. Lots of history there.

    As for a replacement you might want to speak with Rob at Delta Vee Motorsports. He rebuilds them and is very knowledgeable.

    I would think the easy way to go would be 550 rear shocks but they might take a different spring. I am not familiar with the axle weights of the two cars. I would think if it is in the budget a conversion to Koni or Ohlin is not out of the picture.
     
  20. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #45 TZ 750, Feb 19, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  21. twright

    twright Karting

    May 15, 2005
    225
    Indianapolis USA
    Ok, I'm dying with anticipation:

    I still don't understand what I'm supposed to see. What inside the shock caused the fracture?
     
  22. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #47 TZ 750, Feb 20, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  23. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #48 TZ 750, Feb 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's a couple of close-up of previous photo's
    (Forgive the pace of this thread. I have a friend
    helping with this, and he's only available one day
    per week.

    I am also learning how to post photo's.

    Wish I had a 12 year old around to do
    this stuff.....

    I am thinking that this broken plastic ring
    has something to do with this.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  24. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #49 TZ 750, Feb 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  25. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #50 TZ 750, Feb 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

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