I've liked the GT4 for years and am now thinking about buying one. What are typical problem areas to investigate before purchase? Which version is preferred and why? I understand that most people thing the Euro models are better. I'm in California are they harder to smog? Which is better version 1 or 2? Any insight is most welcome! cheers, Jon
If you are in california, I would suggest a 74 or 75 (series 1) model, since they are smog exempt. Rust is definately something to look for. Do a pre-purchase inspection. There's been lots posted on this site regarding the GT4, so have a look around. Good Luck. Dom
Thanks Dom - I am reading everything here and at other locations at the moment. Not a lot of stuff here specifically on the GT4. Surprised to learn about the sodium valves (Mercedes has used them since the 60s without problems to my knowledge) and feeling real need for service records related to that problem. Has anybody out there gotten calif. smog with a GT4? What was your experience?
Contact Robert Garven Jr. - or he may post in this thread - as he can answer questions regarding smog testing. It's not necessarily the valves fault for failure. Blame soft valve GUIDES for wearing, causing the valves to wobble about and land on the seat unevenly, causing them to bend a bit. Do that several thousand times and it doesn't take much for them to break after that (wall thickness of the hollow valve stem is approx. 1mm).
For some reason I did not think this was the case, but am now thinking that this line of thinking doesn't make any sense, but did the GT4s follow the same engine changes over the years as the GTBs and GTSs? Did the early cars have the dry sump and hotter cams, did the jetting and cams change with the later cars, ect? Did the Euro GT4s retain the dry sump setup until the end of the production?
Will look for Robert.... I agree with your valve comment. No doubt Italian metalurgy didn't help on numerous fronts...
Let me reiterate... pre smog cars are a must for California. I attended a FCA lecture on smog at Silicon Valley Motors and there were 2 cars that were driven there, illegally because the owners couldn't get them to pass smog. A very sad day indeed. I lucked into my GT 4 and it starts right up, carbs tuned for no choke and idles well. I doubt that they would do so if they were tuned for HC and Co compliance of 1976 and beyond. I love the car though it is the red headed step child of the Ferrari community...a very good handeling car that looks sharp today. 2 cents again offered humbly.
Mario - this is a huge concern. I'm not taking it lightly. My father bought a new Mondial in France around the time that the EPA started closing conversion shops. It took him over a year to make the proper conversion. He almost couldn't get it approved. This matter isn't to be taken lightly. Could you be more specific about this? California approved cars 'in the day'. Are you saying that all post 1975 cars can not be smogged? I would think that cars with original california importation and approvals etc... would be ok. Any insight would be helpful
Don't ignore missing damaged or trim, damage to bumpers, rear lights etc. Go for original over modified every time except for perhaps minor upgrades to wheels. Bodywork is crucial but in the UK prices are really beginning to rise and ultimately (like the 246) every car will be worth restoring (we are a long way off that yet!) However misguided, low mileage (ie circa 50k) seems to be very highly prized which is hard on higher mileage cars that are, after all, 30-35 years old now.
Where are you? If you'd like you can come by and poke around my car. Give me an excuse to pull the car out. The more GT4s you see the better off you are. Mine is a '75 and not completely original. I know of a good '79 in San Jose that passed its last CA smog check that would be for sale if you asked nicely.
The GT4 is one of my favorite Ferrari's. There are diffrences in cams, carbs and exhaust between the years. Smog in CA has actually - finally gone away for 1975. Is this true for 76 and 77? I don't know. There is a slight trade off in power, but the smogged cars can still thrill on a windy road, or another way to look at it - get you all the tickets you can stand. Here's an incomplete bunch of random thoughts: They are all great cars. If you do get one needing emissions testing, the first time is the worst because you find out exactly where you stand. A good head start is CA registration to begin with regardless of year. Without this, the hassle could be minimal, or could be insurmountable. It's potentially a crummy road and the DMV and CARB treat you like they're doing you a favor even talking to you. The UP-side to an emission car is it's really nice NOT to stink of exhaust. Under the wrong circumstances you can stop at a signal with the windows down and have all of the crap float back into the car and you'll smell like an exhaust pipe. When I was a kid, it was cool, now I really don't appreciate it. As important to ownership is service. Many owners love this part as much as driving them. They are pretty straightforward to work on and most of the parts are little engineered sculptures. A good THOROUGH service is a must. Just changing that EZ hose on top ------bad idea. Well sorted cars are very reliable and reward you with confidence and exciting performance. Keep studying and checking back with the wealth of info on this site. Good luck in your search
Brian - I'm going to be on the Peninsula tomorrow morning (I live in Berkeley). Looks like rain, is that an issue? I will send you a pm.... Jon
Hi 2dinos. Thanks for your thoughts! I've been drawn to the GT4 for many years and can't agree more. I've been rebuilding (restoring... hmmm sound too serious!) cars since childhood so the body/trim stuff is well known. The fact that these cars are fairly simple and can be worked on (especially with the support of Fchat) is a key part of my desire to own one. What I'm most concerned with is getting a car that isn't a smog nightmare and a car that has a good bit of zip. While it seems possible to soup them up without too much trouble elsewhere, California doesn't leave much room for those options........ About the wheels.... Is there a good, perhaps slightly non-stock, set up to seek? I understand that the originals are 14". Is this correct? Are 15"ers a lot better?
Go with 16". They are a lot better than the 14's or 15's. And look good too. Superformance (www.superformance.co.uk) sells reproductions of the original 5-spoke F-wheel (16" in this style was a factory option on late Euro GT4's!!), as well as 16" versions of the Dino design. Both will look great on the GT4, and give you plenty of high performance modern rubber to chose from. They are somewhat heavier than stock wheels, but quite frankly, I've never noticed... FWIW Hans (pics of the superformance wheels on a GT4 on www.308gt4.nl)
Superformance wheels are great, just don't go too wide on the front tyres and make sure your ride height (front) is OK. My front lhs tyre clips the guard lip when I make sharp low speed turns.
Another wheel option for the GT4 are the 328 16" wheels, which look great with the lines on the car IMHO. You do need to modify the front spindle a little, but it is well worth it. I think the 328 wheels look better on the GT4 than the 308QV wheels. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11452&highlight=328+wheels Dom
Thanks Dom and George - I will keep this in mind. Aside from looks, what do you think about the driving characteristics? Dom - your car is beautiful. And I'm not a black car guy. The color looks great on the GT4. Quite elegant and reduces contrast of bumpers. The wheels look appropriate to my (untrained) eyes.... Jon
Driving the car is like driving a go-kart. Very tight and responsive, especially with a fresh suspension. (Great DIY project, btw...) I can tell you that there are very few newer cars (360's, etc...) that can lose me through the twisties. Straight line speed is a different story, but there are newer cars that cannot hang thru the corners. JIM PS...this Lambo is not one of them....LOL! Image Unavailable, Please Login
Jim I hope to drive one tomorrow for the first time! I'm looking forward to it. Other than a Boxter, this will be my first mid-engine drive. No kidding the Lambo isn't 'one of them'! LOL
NO, Post 1975 cars can be smogged, some owners have had troubles smogging them...further the CARB (CALIF AIR RESOURCES BOARD) makes you jump through many efforts, limits on costs on fixing non-compliant cars, referee stations, It is an issue. There ARE cars that comply. Many I bet... THERE are owners that willnot/cannot--- not comply and the DMV won't issue registration. My solution is to suggest to NOT PLAY in the system at all. therefore, 1974/5 cars are the solution to dodge the problem all together....Many well cared for post 75 cars will pass smog...the gov't out of my life =good. My 2 cents.
like a go cart. Balanced even with relatively low power compared to 350+ hp cars. I owned a '06 Ford Gt and it was a handfull (which I loved btw). The Dino is more docile but FUN to drive A well driven GT4 is difficult to keep up with IN THE TWISTIES....Believe it.
In respect to the 14" wheels, if one should continue to use them, I'll suggest Vredestein Sprint Classic tires. They are available in the same size and speed ratings as the original XWX's but at a fraction of the cost. They hold the road much better than the Pirelli P4000's I used to have on the car (especially wet roads). I like the fact they have a similar tread pattern to the XWX's, to make it look more period-like: (note: Pirelli on the left, original XWX in the middle and Vredestein on the right. The Vred. looks narrower, but only because it the bare tire and not mounted yet on a rim. I bought five last year, so even the spare is new - the XWX was an original! Yikes!) Image Unavailable, Please Login
