"go fast" chassis setup for your 308

Hi all,

A couple guys asked in another thread for some suspsension specifics so here you go:

QA1's front and rear.
375f, 325r spring rates
Shocks set at 10 for the track ... you set them at 3 the car will ride like a Cadillac. When I set them at 6 she's about like my car was with re-valved Konis and stock springs. With them set at 10 she is just a bit harder than the wife's Boxster.

Camber camber camber .... -2.5 rear, -2.3 front ... you won't be able to get that unless you modify the front suspension forks. Hint: learn to drive the car without this much camber first so you don't hurt yourself .

Toe and caster about factory.

Bigger swaybars. I'm seriously thinking about making these after I got f'd on my deposit trying to get more made by Saner.

Ride height ... as low as you can go without tires rubbing ... I can measure mine.

Tire sizes ... 245-45-16 rear, 225-55-16 front (I think that's the front). I run cheap Toyo T1R's on the street ... Hoosiers at the track.

Don't forget to monitor the rear stub axles, etc.

Hard to believe, but when I got rid of the front bumper I could really feel the difference. Not so much from acceleration, but just incredible turn in without the barbell hanging out there.

Oh yeah ... one other thing is a dry sump will yield more power 'cause the pistons aren't pushing against the blowby pressure ... rumored to be as much as a 20hp gain on these motors. I will have some factual data on this hopefully soon.

cheers,

Sean

 

Front tires should be 225/50-16

 

just wondering Sean, just to compare: what's the rating of the stock springs?

Another question Do you use stock-size rims?

 

Yeah that's right on the tire size.

I don't know what the stock spring rate is ... "soft". I don't have a spring off a shock to measure but I would like to know. I remember there is a bunch of preload on 'em. I thought it was documented on here. I might take one apart and measure it just for the heck of it.

Rim size I'm using the reproduction units ... stock size front and rear.

cheers

 

how were they modified?
Rob

 

Just longer bolts ... but instead of putting 1/2" of shims in there, I tacked a plate in there that I "hope" also provides additional support.

I posted pics and had a thread on here ... I'll hunt for it later ... or you can .

cheers

edit: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=197820&highlight=308+fork+camber

pics and stuff in that thread

 

Have you tried the modified wet sump baffle? It's supposed to help with the right-handers

 

yes ... it helped ... but I can make it starve on the street pretty easily without being dangerous ... if I run 1 qt over full measured immediately at shut down, which is about 2 qts overfull as reccomended by the manual, it's a little harder to starve with street tires. Keep in mind I'm looking at the gauge so if I really hunkered down and focused and put the power down where I know I can the oil light would be on for a few seconds.

with slicks, track days and autocrossing, I just have to sand bag on right handers. It's a shame .

 

wow. that is a drag. you guy make me want to take my block to Norwood when I have it torn down to convert it to dry sump. hmmm

 

I'm doing a kit right now that uses the stock gear driven pressure section. I'm basically duplicating the factory design ... adding a twin scavenge section in the sump ... parts with the timing cover mod's will be around $3-$4k I hope ... not including tank, plumbing and install. The timing cover needs a bunch of mod's but I really like the idea of keeping the pressure section gear driven.

I'm literally supposed to be getting the custom pump assembly "any day" ... been in the pipe for a few months ... got all the sprockets and timing cover worked out.

 

Good write-up and pics. Did you MIG weld those yourself?

 

yeah ... you setting me up for some pain? ... do the welds look like a 6 year old did 'em?

cheers

 

looks great, thanks for sharing.
I'm up for some work myself and this will certainly help.


What, you educated guess, will bring a proper setting of the suspension on a track compared to properly set stock stuff on a 308? Do you have figures of both?
what tirepressure do you run?



I noticed your dry sump project earlier and 'm interested in how you proceed.

Just wondering, isn't it possible to "just" mount an aftermarket dry sumpsystem? In the (very) old times I used to compete in rallys with an old audi fox gti and on this i put an aftermarket dry sumpsystem. it was reasonably cheap and worked well. This particular setup combined pressuse/sucktion pump unit which was geardriven but there were sets available that time that were (toothed)belt driven. Should be an option too i guess

edit: just googled. You know this company. http://www.drysump.com/index1.htm
Appearently they are busy with a 308 too ( notice their sumpsection mentionning: ferrari 308: comming soon)

 

Great stuff here!!! I am very anxious about it myself, although any project like this is probably going to be a while for me.


PDG

 

I'm not sure what you're asking on the first question ... cost or settings? ... just a little less camber if you're always on the street but if you're very aggressive that will even out tire wear plus depending on the tire you can rotate them and use the un-worn shoulder if you're experiencing to much shoulder wear.

I run really high tire pressures 'cause I load the heck out of em' ... I think last time I checked I'm around 38 cold with street tires ... Hoosiers much different though and that also depends on track if you talk about slicks ... the more negative camber you run the more you have to increase the tire pressure to keep the contact patch there also ... just my real world experience measuring tire temps and monitoring wear.

Regarding other ways of doing the dry sump I just really wanted to use the stock Ferrari pressure section that is gear driven, proven, bullet proof etc. Chains etc. can break and I know first hand of a failure on a Stradale with few miles .. I could ramble on a lot about that but I guess the fact I could actually duplicate what Ferrari did with the wet sump timing cover made sense 'cause there's other sales opporunities with guys that want the stock look.

That company is who I'm working with on this project. We have an understanding. The pump is only a small part of the package. The timing cover mod's are significant in comparison to the pump.

Hopefully answered some of your questions.

cheers

 

If you get 20 extra HP from dry sump, "pushing against blowby pressure" isn't the reason.

Doug

 

Luckydynes thanks for all of this . In your previous thread you mension lots of front dive under braking , have you resolved this ?

 

sorry for unclearness: actually i was refering to laptimes on a track before and after mods/setup. I guess you will have figures to compare. I'm sure improvement will be considderable but i like to know more about that

my 2 ct. For the few who really want a dry sump for improved lubrication during hard tracking my guess is that stock-look will maybe not be that big of an issue as these guys probably changed a lot more. For me personally it's of no concern. Al I want is proper lubrication... and i do think a sidemounted pump-setup wil be a lot cheaper than one in the sump.

So you are actually working with drysump.com on a setup? Great! Can you tell more What the progress on this? I really like to know more.

 

no, no...other side of the coin: actually looks good.

 

Some info from Sean with Drysump systems:

"Thanks for the inquiry about the 308 dry sump system we are developing.

Significant modifications are required to the timing cover. We are utilizing the factory gear driven pressure section and adding 2 scavenge sections in the sump which are chain driven.

The hole in the side of the block that you are referring to will not be necessary. We expect to offer 2 versions. One will have the discharge in the factory location as you have seen. The other will have discharge thru the wet sump dipstick hole."


sounds promising. I will follow up with him regarding their development

 

where else do you get the extra power from then? With real race motors they try and pull a vacum for this very reason ... just re-itterating what I read in some motor development book ... no hands on with it.

cheers

 

yeah .... 375 front springs ... shocks on 10 ... lower the car ... get rid of the front bumper.

BTW it is amazing how soft the 375 springs are with the dampening set low on the shocks. I can't imagine anyone thinking the car rides hard with these springs with the shocks set soft. You can literally bounce the front end which you can't do with any modern sports car. It surprised me how much the shocks effect the ride harshness ... I was expecting the 375 springs to feel hard even with practically no shock dampening.

 

I've got lots and lots of data and I really wanted someone who was good at predicting lap times to get involved. Because my oiling system has been my limit of performance I wanted to get an idea of how much faster my times would be if I could sustain the g forces that I've logged on left turns ... and then put a pro behind the wheel to go run a lap at Big Willow or Laguna Seca to put it down in the record books. With just me behind the wheel my car holds 'er own with newer machinery unless it's a really big track with a huge straightaway or super high speed arse-puckering corner. If I gutted a 308 and took it to the next level I'm pretty sure a 308 would stay with any of the 911 variants or Vettes ... $ for $ that is ... you throw money at the 911 ... throw the same at the 308 you'll be kicking it's butt . Your a/c will never be good though ... we'd need everything un-necessary removed ... just like any Porsche guy does once he gets the real "go fast" bug .


Just my dimmented view of the world today .

cheers

 

That "Sean" is me . I'm told I should have the proto pump Monday so I can finish things up. I've had several pieces in my hands over the past few months but this should be the real deal to put on a motor.

 

Porsche guys dump everything out of their cars man. Literally everything. There is a seat and steering wheel and a couple gauges and that's about it. They dump all kinds of weight