the input shaft bearing PN I'm thinking about is 131050 131049 look at ricambi's site table 23 under 348 parts book. Also since you have the box out get an engine rear main seal often overlooked. It cheap and a do it while you got the box out kind of thing.
FBB, Bruce keeps telling me not to order any parts for the GB, at least until I can take some pics through the inspection plates prior to he and Ernie coming out. If worse comes to worse, I can have parts overnighted. A couple things I want to remind you of concerning the GB and flywheel... ALL the gearbox services and the flywheel mod were done by Joe at Concours Auto in La Habra. You once told me you know him and also spoke very highly of him and his skills. The flywheel does not cause a vibration, it causes a chatter sound at idle because the grease and dampening elements have been removed... Joe explained that the chatter is normal spline play at low RPM. I only want to change it back to stock because the sound drive me NUTS! And i'm sick of everyone that hears it telling me I have a rod-knock or that my throwout bearing is wasted. The mod was done on 11/20/05 @ 49053 miles. On that invoice, the following was done... -Replace upper transfer gear -Replace clutch pilot shaft -Modify & update flywheel assembly On 10/10/06, @ 58676 miles, the last major was done, also on that invoice, it says "Repair Gearbox", but no details are given. I agree with the theory that whatever this is, it isn't major... I also believe the metal pieces that came out, are from a bearing casing/cage. And I absolutely will replace the rear main seal while i'm in there.
I feel your pain... When my gearbox went south the Brothers helped me thru it, and I got it running agaiin, better than ever... I sure you will be able to get you car back on the road again!
Depends on what you feel is major. If the bearing that is blown is not easily spotted or if EB think the blown bearing is in a shaft gear then the whole box has to come apart. Not a big deal to me but to others???? Joe is a very good mechanic. I trust him and he is one of a very few.
By "major", I mean damage to internal parts, and cost for replacement parts. I sure hope the box doesn't have to be torn down completely... something tells me it wont be possible to tear it down and rebuild it in just 2 days! Joe worked on this car exclusively from '99 to '07, and did 2 full majors on the car in that time. He wasn't the previous owner of the car, but he sold it to me on behalf of the owner, and he drove it to Vegas and delivered it to my door personally! He's a Great guy, and I trust him also. IMPORTANT QUESTION!! If its the input shaft bearing that is bad, does the gearbox actually have to come out??
Yes, the gearbox has to come out if the input shaft bearing is bad, and at least halfway apart. I'll need to know before I come, as I'll need to borrow a blind bearing puller to get it out. You'll be able to see it plainly deep in the box when you pull out the input shaft from the front of the box.
I will have the gearbox out of the car by April 3rd, Bruce and Ernie are coming to Vegas April 7th & 8th, FBB cant make it on those dates. I'm actually getting excited about this, I cant wait to meet Bruce and Ernie!! Anyone else that wants to come out, PM me for my address and stuff. ok then, out it will come! And I will provide a full detailed report and pics before you come.
Just a friendly suggestion - why not make a list of the tools needed, assuming the worst so that no tools are excluded, and then the OP can confirm what tools he has access to and then you/Ernie/FBB/etc can bring whatever tools he does not have access to? Would it be unpractical to bring every gear box tool imaginable (I have no idea what that would consist of)? If the selection is too great or unpractical, then kindly disregard this post I am just thinking that with such limited time that you wanna be prepared for the worst and have whatever tool you will need at your disposal? Just a thought to try and make this go as smoothly as possible
So come on Thursday and make it a long weekend! Thursdays and Sunday's are the lowest flight prices to and from Vegas, from just about anywhere.
allegiant....friday to monday is only like 100 bux. it more the work thing than any other. im off friday -mondays. maybe ill come to help put car back together!
That's why it is easiest to bring the box to cali because we got all the tools. It is easy to forget a needed tool when there are 100 things in the box. But the important tools, rubber band, toaster oven , fishing line and a BFH (big f'ing hammer) we can get anywhere. Now it that list of tools don't scare you you don't know us very well.
Steve and this is for EB too, I spoke at length today with Joe at Concours Auto about your box. I think you should seriously consider sourcing a new or known good clutch shaft and gear because you hate the noise at idle. Bruce may have these gears and shaft used. Ideally, both gears because they work best in pairs but that means a teardown all the way to the pinion drive and some shims to ensure proper gear mating using some prusian blue. Joe explained the conditions inside your box before purchase but you may not understand the actual mechanicals of how things work in there. How many miles are on the car now? 70k miles? At 35K miles way before you bought this car the car was eating clutchshaft ringnuts. This causes a noise like a bad throwout bearing. This exact failure happened to 4 348Challenge cars that I know of and to my car which prompted me to rebuild my box. So it is a known issue and I always recommend people who work on these boxes to take the clutch shaft out to inspect it. At the time there were no replacements for this part from Ferrari. I remember having my own problems getting this shaft and gear waiting 3 months until we had Tony Novatti from Ferrari Houstan on Fchat and when he learned about what I was doing offered to get me parts because they ran a challenge team. If it was not for FoH and TonyN I would have been stuck like Joe. You see when this ringnut comes loose the gear bangs on the shaft and bugger's it up so that no amount of locktite ot tightening will keep the unit together. I think this happened to Danial at Ricambi too. Anyway Joe offered to the PO of your car at the 35kmile point to either source a used clutchshaft and gears or wait until Ferrari had them available for sale or......weld it! I thought I came up with the welding idea. If you look back at my posts I actually did this for another Fchater for free. Here is a picture of it. I never heard back and I assume it worked. Well Joe "creative as always" thought of it first. Your car has been running fine for some 40k miles on a welded clutch shaft on the order of the PO because no one wants to spend the money. Image Unavailable, Please Login
So anyway...you can see how the shaft is hollow and possibly subject to warping from welding. So your shaft per Joe definately has more runout (aka NOT round) than factory. Joe says that the noise you hear at idle is from this runout as the shafts rotate together and bang around amplified by the solid flywheel. This explains why my solid flywheel which I raced the cr@p out of makes no noise and works perfectly. It is possible if you go back to the Ferrari cr@p designed dampened flywheel assembly the noise may stop but don't be surprised if the noise is still there. Then of course you have to deal with the periodic re-greasing of that pig. Personally, I'd keep the noise and turn my radio up. The PO and Joe knew about this noise and knew what the fix was but the PO did not want to spend the money. The solution is new clutch shaft and gears or finding someone like a camshaft guy who can anneal the shaft and gear (soften it), straighten it, re-heat treat it and see if you get lucky. Well the PO thought it was not worth the time effort or cost for a minor noise. But if it bugs you and you want it gone, EB may not be able to get rid of the noise with just a clutch pack swap. If you can live with the noise you can save a huge amount of money like 5-6K in parts even with free labor unless you can get used stuff for cheap. The bearing bits in your first picture are unrelated to the clutchshaft as it has been running. The blown bearing is an independent issue we need to find. But dealing with the clutch shaft should be given serious thought. See if Bruce has one and what it will cost for the shaft and both drop gears. Maybe you will get lucky. EB will understand the technicals in this post. Steve I hope I did not totally loose you.
Just... wow... No FBB, you didn't confuse me, you enlightened me! I really appreciate you having this talk with Joe, at least we know what were dealing with once and for all. In a way, this news kindof sucks... I cant figure out if I got a solid reliable mod here, or if i've got a jerry-rigged POS that's basically a ticking time-bomb. Thinking back on some of the wicked burnouts and drifts ive done in this car is making me a little sick to my stomach... I'm gonna chill and see what Bruce thinks about all this... maybe I should keep my flywheel and invest in the clutch shaft, IF he even has a good one that he trusts, and I can AFFORD! And also if he thinks this major rebuild can be knocked out in only 2 days! I guess if all else fails, we can simply deal with the immediate problem, then i'll start saving my pennies and searching for a good used box. I know where I can get one for about $4k, but I don't have anywhere near that kind of money to spend right now.
Steve Might it be worth getting this. http://cgi.ebay.com/Ferrari-348-Manual-Transmission-1991-16k-Mile-Tranny_W0QQitemZ170407954324QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item27ad1b0794 It supposedly has 16k miles and is 4900 obo. You could either switch it into your car or use it as a parts box. I know you said 4k is tough for you but I would have to think that a few individual parts alone would add up to 4k really quickly. BTW are the gearboxes the same on the entire 348 line or did they change them for the 348 convertibles?
I still haven't figured out my schedule for next week. But......I may be driving out there to help you take the box out, maybe? It just depends on what days off I have next week. Then we can pack it up in my truck for the trip back out to Cali, and then the tear down at fatboy's house.
umm.. ok, that would be great, but then what? come BACK on the 7th & 8th? I cant expect you guys to do that! This option scares me a bit, and i'll tell you why... if you guys get into the box and want to start replacing this and that, it could turn into a monster that I cant afford! Then I have a torn down GB that is 350 miles away! or a fixed GB that's being held for ransom! This is NOT a matter of trust, let me make that PERFECTLY clear... but I am very limited on funds right now. I still have no clue what Bruce will want to charge me for parts, if he even has them! And wont FBB be out of town on spring break for the next couple weeks?
Steve: I have been following your posts closely........I think it is amazing what the stooges are offering to do for you......if I were you, I would beg, borrow or steal the funds you may need and make it as easy as possible for these guys. Without their help, you may NEVER have enough money to get your car back on the road. I know what it is like to not have money......times like this is what credit cards are for! Best of luck
I agree. With the gearbox already coming out and soon to be dismantled, and a few of the best minds together doing the job, you should heed their advice.
