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Replacing Heater and Brake Booster Hoses on a GT4

Discussion in '308/328' started by robertgarven, Sep 20, 2009.

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  1. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    #1 robertgarven, Sep 20, 2009
    All,

    Has anyone replace the heater or booster hose on a GT4? I thought I haad a write-up but cant fine it.

    Rob
     
  2. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #2 Ferraripilot, Sep 20, 2009
    I have never done it on a GT4, but I did perform this service on my '76 GTB last year. Pull the left fuel tank away from its mounted position so you have a clear view of the hose and its path over the fuel tank and down to the rocker. Remove the front left wheel well cover to gain access to the front of the hose so you can pull the old hose through. Tie the old hose in tandem to the new hose at the back of the car and proceed to push/pull (with a helper) the new hose to the front of the car. I did not do the booster hose at the same time so I am unsure if both can be done at the same time. Being that the booster hose is much stiffer, it might actually be easier to do both simultaneously.

    Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
     
  3. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
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    #3 Glassman, Sep 20, 2009
    Robert, do some searches on this and you will get some good advise. The real secret is lubrication. I used dish soap in a spray bottle with a long hose on it so you can get into the sharp bend at the back. Pull your hoses from rear to front, wire them together and attach the new hose to the old hose so as you pull the old out the new is on its way.
    The old hose will probably be a pain in the ass to get moving at first. I've never done a GT4 but this is similar on a QV. I was able to do it by myself in a couple of hours. Actually it took longer to get everything out of the way than pulling the hoses.
     
  4. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    #4 yelcab, Sep 20, 2009
    I did it on my GT4 with the gas tank out and the engine happened to be out of the car at the time. I had to drill out the rivets on the small port in the front wheel well. Use a 3" long 3/8 ratchet extension, 2 hose clamps to splice the new and the old hoses together, 2 persons, lots of grease, push and pull, and thread it through. One hose at time, but you do want to do both of the coolant and the vacuum.

    But, according to a recent post, both the tank and the engine can stay in with a pretty good trick.

    He inserted a flexible metal fish used for wiring homes.
    Tie a decent size rope to it and pull it through the old hose.
    tandem the new hose to the old hose on the same rope
    Use a washer at the end, up against a big knot on the hose.
    Pull it through.
     
  5. eurogt4

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    #5 eurogt4, Sep 20, 2009
    A good lubricant that I have used is electrical wire pulling lube, Home Depot had it in a clear form instead of yellow. Kind of like K-Y for a car.
     
  6. Brian Harper

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    #6 Brian Harper, Sep 21, 2009
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    I did it on my GT4, but the rope trick was described by Bill Brooks, search for that. (No hose clamps, that just makes a lump that will get caught on everything.) And knowing about the secret hatch in the front wheel well makes all the difference! I also used the hatch from inside the passenger compartment, but I wouldn't bother again. Remove the tank and remove the firewall bit and that's all you should need. There is a clip hidden in this compartment holding the hoses in place. You will either need to push this clip apart or just pull on the hoses hard enough that it bends out of the way.
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  7. bill brooks

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    #7 bill brooks, Sep 21, 2009
    i'd like to help you guys out, but my transfer skills on this forum are extremely weak.
    as i am much older than most of you, i never played with computer games or computers
    for that matter. but, be that as it may, try searching the threads with this spotty
    information:

    328 coolant hose ... 8/29/09... #6... 308/328/mondial section
     
  8. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
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    #8 Glassman, Sep 21, 2009
    I attached the new hose to the old by drilling a series of 1/16 holes in the end of the hoses and wiring them together with steel wire. Wrap the joint with duct tape to make it smooth. I wouldn't attempt doing one hose at a time. Too much chance of getting hung up at the tight turn at the rear.
     
  9. robertgarven

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    #9 robertgarven, Sep 23, 2009
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  10. Brian Harper

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    #10 Brian Harper, Sep 24, 2009
    This is a heck of a lot of work. Wouldn't you want to use good hose instead?
     
  11. Steve Magnusson

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    #11 Steve Magnusson, Sep 24, 2009
    Yes, the arrow signifies the direction that airflow is allowed by the check valve (i.e., into the intake manifold).
     
  12. bill brooks

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    #12 bill brooks, Sep 24, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2009
    murdock industries
    553 carroll st.
    akron,oh 44304
    800-426-5273

    they sell by the foot. (16ft. needed depending on your routing)
    it cost me $107.00 complete in 12/08.
    aeroquip #1503-10 (h40120) braided vacuum brake booster hose.
    looks like oem but stiffer. use the best hose clamps you can find.
    you will undoubtedly need to cut to length. i suggest measuring the total length
    needed and cut away from the car as this hose has an inner steel wire which makes
    a mess with metal shards. BE CAREFUL! wear glasses and leather gloves.

    for heater hose, gates #85945 (available at napa) also 16ft. in length
    this hose was $5.69 ft. this is gates premiere heater hose.

    both these hoses pulled fairly easily in my 328.
    however, judging from the pix above, that will not be the case on your gt4.
     
  13. robertgarven

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    #13 robertgarven, Sep 24, 2009
    All,

    Thanks for all the suggestions. Even Dave H. said that the OEM hose was pretty good and that newer hoses are less durable hence the reason he is on his venture. Both hoses are 35 years old and neither has failed as a matter of fact the heater hose with the trademark rubber fabric pattern is similar to the OEM 40mm heater hoses and is not only well made but very durable. I am going with all of Dave's hoses but I dont think he is making these.

    Rob

    :)
     
  14. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    #14 robertgarven, Nov 8, 2009
    I'm getting closer to the deed. I have some more questions.

    What did you have to rmove to get the tank out of the way? It looks like fuel pump and filter and coils. Please dont say engine, bellhousing or suspension!

    I got a sample of the wire house from Dave H. and I tried to cut it thinking I would have to cut the piece after I pulled a length through the car. I use a hose cutter, a hack saw and hammered a one sided razor blade and did not even scratch the wire. How did you cut this???

    Thanks

    My computer is dying and thats is why i have not posted more of my efforts... more to come!

    Rob
     
  15. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

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    #15 davehelms, Nov 8, 2009
    Cut off wheel on a die grinder
     
  16. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
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    #16 Brian Harper, Nov 8, 2009
    As I recall I pulled off the rear brake disc, and the transfer gear outer housing. I might have pulled the shock so the suspension would droop more, but I don't remember for sure. I don't think so, because I would have undone the CV and I don't remember that.
     
  17. eurogt4

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    #17 eurogt4, Nov 8, 2009
    You have to remove the coils, fuel tank, pump, probably the filter and sometimes the brake rotor. If you do remove the rotor, you will also have to move the caliper. Getting the tank out involves some rotating and turning, but it comes out. I think you can move the caliper without opening any brake fluid hoses or pipes by removing the bracket that holds the pipe-to-hose connection, at least on a GT4.
     
  18. Brian Harper

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    #18 Brian Harper, Nov 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  19. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    #19 robertgarven, Jan 3, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    All,

    Thanks for all your help. I finally got my tank out and would like more feedback.

    I got the tank out with only removing one stud from the transfer gears, and brake disc! I had a hard time getting the panels behind the tank out and the first one got bent up a bit. It seemed it was press fitted pretty tight in there and after drilling the rivets out I had to wrestle with it!

    I am mystified by Brian's pic from the inside of the car as on my 75 after the two aluminum panels came off with the felt (I hope not asbestos) on their backside the two hoses when down through the two infamous tabs which I also un-rivited and the hoses go straight to the front from there, on Brian's pic from the inside it looks like there is a square access panel in the body where the hose go through, which my car does not have. As a matter of fact I think pulling the hoses will be easier than I thought. :)

    Do you guys rivet the panels back on. I was thinking of getting one of those rivet guns that puts a tread in there so the next time this would be easier? I am getting my hose from Dave but on the vacuum hose the nipple on the brake booster is 14mm and the engine one is 12mm. Since there is a connector there near the engine has anyone thought of using 14mm ID hose up to the barb and 12mm after that. Dave sent me some samples of 12mm vacuum hose and I cannot get the hose over the brake booster barb no matter what I do.

    Thanks to all

    Rob



    I still dont have all the hose yet, so I am in a holding pattern.
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  20. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

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    #20 Paul_308, Jan 3, 2010
    Check valve? CHECK VALVE? I thought the po ran short and used it to join two pieces of hose.

    Finally now it makes sense. But my arms are 1/2" longer now after all that pulling and tugging.

    Hose replacment goes on the list with slow windows, bad fuses, and warm start problems, cold 2nd gear, and warm a/c as standard 308 situations to be endured before qualifying as a 308 owner.
     
  21. Brian Harper

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    #21 Brian Harper, Jan 3, 2010
    The inside access panel might not be obvious, but I don't think you need it anyway. It is hidden under a coating of that spray-on crap. Since you are there, carefully look behind the hoses to see if you can see the end of the screws poking out from the inside. The panel is shown on the GT4 parts pages. I have a series one car (10130), perhaps earlier cars didn't have this? Perhaps series 2 cars don't have this? Maybe Luigi forgot to put a hole and panel in your car!
     
  22. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    #22 robertgarven, Jan 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Brian, I think I was confused by your photo. It looks like you just have the hose hanging in that upper panel, or did you just open that up to get at them? On mine they run down through the clips and straight to the fron. If you look close in the first pic you can see the access hole on your car covered up on mine from the other side. Did you rivet the panels on??? Would something like this work??? http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/mar39203.html

    Rob
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  23. robertgarven

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    #23 robertgarven, Jan 31, 2010
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    Dear Friends,

    I want to let everyone know how my progress is going. I seemed to have missed some point about this operation and want to help others as dumb as I, if they attempt this simple but hard to get to replacement project.

    I have spent 6 months of weekends (well if it was raining or too cold I cannot work as my car sits 2 inches from the back of my garage door! And I am also doing a major!!!) getting to this point. I will make a Ferrari for dummies post when I am done.

    Of course the trick is removing the hidden panel in the wheel well, but that is just the tip of the iceberg. Once you remove it that where experience comes in to play. And the only way to really learn something is I guess the hard way......

    I found a suitable replacement hose (which means up to my standards!) at West Marine which is ironically made in Italy and of very similar construction to the OEM heater hose
    except it has a spiral wound SS wire which will come in handy at one point read on..

    I drilled 4 holes in each hose, the replacement and the original. I tried bailing wire but ended up opting for very small wire ties, wrapped the hoses with duct tape and I also inserted a thin nylon rope which i intended to pull thorough a small damp cloth to clean the hose when finally installed.

    The bad news is I screwed up, the good news is I have very easy instructions to those who follow...

    After spending an hour trying to pull the hose through by pulling an inch down from the access panel then going to the rear and pulling an inch of hose at a time, I figured that the access door was indeed the secret. I also noticed that my original heater hose was flattened as it went from the access door to the rocker panel area, which makes my replacement spiral wound hose all the more sensible.

    Here is the secret! Attach your hose together (I am pulling from front to rear, against conventional wisdom but I have my reasons. I was not sure of the correct length, so I wanted extra working space at the rear to cut which has way more room than the front bonnet area where only 11" of hose hang's out) Pull the hose straight down through the access door until you have about a foot or more loose then push it into the small opening which goes to the rocker panel. Beware it is sharp here and I ruined my hose by pulling it through form the rear. I finally figure out that if you pull it down then feed it through it will go over a sharp bit of body work and from there the run to the rear is completely open. By pulling the hose from the rear after I had enough loose pulled through the access door I made the hose force its way over the sharp bit cutting into the hose at each spiral ripping the cover! I thought well this is OK then i decided after 35 years waiting and 6 months getting to this point that I was going to do this right, so i ordered a new piece of hose and will attempt again next weekend!

    I am just glad I did not screw up the piece of vacuum hose I got from Dave as his was much harder to come by. I even think that you do not even need to attach the hoses as the sticking point is the transition from the wheel well access door to the rocker panel, but I am too chicken to try out my theory so i am going to go with, what I learned the hard way!

    I also removed both tanks, the right tank comes out very easy, compared to the left tank, check out my undercoating repair and the float assembly and inner baffles, these tanks are very intricate designs!

    Thanks for all your help and suggestions and to Dave H. for all the hose (See picture!!), unfortunately this is a lesson learned the hard way. If any one has any suggestions for what kind of rivets to use or what size & length needed to attach the panels, that would be greatly appreciated.

    Just for the record the heater original heater hose was 12' 1"

    VTY

    Rob
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  24. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    #24 robertgarven, Mar 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  25. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    #25 Peter, Mar 23, 2010
    Congrats!
     
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