Another timing belt thread...

Everybody knows the issues with having timing belts replaced every 3 years etc etc.
Now I like to raise a question from a different angle:

I read an interesting article some time ago in a German car magazine (Auto, Morot & Sport) about timing belts for all type of cars. The head line cought my attention: translated something like "Timning belts for the life time of the car"... and it was about Continental new type of belts as well as ongoing R&D.
After this I talked to the technical department(s) of Continental, and did not really get a firm answer to the question: has the quality improved, if I buy Conti belts can I then increase the intervall of change, and how come some car manufacturers recommend a change every 8-10 years, while Ferrari recommends every 3 years (some car manufacturers have engines with same or higher hp/cc due to turbo) ?
The answer I got was "to follow each car manufacturers recommendation"...

What I mean is, it would be natural to assume that the quality of the timing belts has improved over the past 10-15 years, and MAYBE it would today be fair to say that a recommended change for Ferraris now adays perhaps could be pushed to 5 or even 6 years ???

Ok, ok, some of you will now argue and say, sure, if you are willing to take your chances, go ahead, but we will stick to the recommended 3 years.

Bottom line: has anyone out there, on a longer period of ownership, deliberately stretched their change intervall to let´s say 5-6 years, and not had any problems ?
(assuming "normal" usage of the car, avoiding race tracks every now and then)

On the other hand, is there anyone out there that has followed the change intervall of 3 years, and when replacing them have seen severe signs of aging / wear ? -or even an experience of snapped belts ?

Rgds Anders

 

Anders,
Let me be the first to say that the longevity of the belt is not the only issue. Even if the belt was guaranteed for the life of the car there are other bits and pieces that are whirring around very fast. I don't have the statistics but from what I have read on the forums, a belt breakage can be the result of something else "letting go". Belt bearings and tensioners come to mind. Personally, I think that the service interval for that part of the car should be read as belts, bearings and tensioners and not just belts (in the manual for the 355, Operation 5 - "Change timing belts every 50.000 km and not over 3 years)".
Regards,
Ron

 

Doing a belt service on my car right now and, as expected, we replaced the tensioner bearings. We ended up also putting in new tensioners as well since they showed some wear. Then there are the other things that we did because the engine was out such as motor mounts, hoses, etc. I don't subscribe to doing it every three years but do it every five years. I have done it twice now without any issues.

 

yeb...that`s the way to look at it

been on my second 5 year term for belts & tensioner bearings,
sofar 30K miles without problems...worth every damn mile

don`t take it as a recommendation -
do what ever you think is apropriate for your car

but don`t whine when it breaks...fix it and drive the thing !

 

There are several guys in the 348/355 section that use the 5-year interval. I only heard of one instance where there was a belt breakage, and I think it was 5-years + 1 day. I am not sure if that was a joke or not, but that is what I read.

As the others have said here, it is more than the belt --> tensioners, etc...

 

The thing to do is to replace your belts and bearings when ever you feel like it. Thats the only answer to this timeless question.

 

I recently purchased 84 Mondial with 26k miles and according to PO (he owned it for 22 years) the timing belts had NEVER been replaced - as he figured they wern't due until 30k miles.... but the point of the post is that if the belts (and tensioners, etc.) lasted 26 years, IMO changing them at 3 year interval does seem like overkill.....but I am knew here - just relaying one car's history.

PS - I am having complete major being done now (PPS- I did get a PPI and knew what I was buying)...

 

It actually goes in opposite direction, the original interval on my 1977 NON CAT cars was 52K miles, or something like that.....

The belt design is unchanged.......

A Technical Bulletin was issued and Ferrari said "all v8s".....now you have to use your brain and think a minute, if there is any difference in a 360 with cam variators, and a 30 year old 308/328.....

HTH.

 

22 years is not unheard of....one of my cars is at 14 years......

 

Got my 84 Mondial in 1992 with 12K on her. The belts had never been changed. The gentleman who had her before me was a former race car driver who drove her hard.
John

 

I'm reminded of the poster who claimed it was cheaper to just rebuild the engine, when the belt, drive pulley bearing or tensioner failed, than to change the parts every 3-5 years. He's probably right, IF you don't do your own work.

 

Yeah, but if you do your own work, changing the belts and tensioners even 1x a year will run maybe $300 - $350 USD and 3 hours.

So that argument only holds true if you are paying to have the belts done, but would rebuild your own motor, which doesn't make much sense.

Phil

 

Too lazy to search- but I'm pretty sure in another thread that Ferrari had changed the interval to 30k or 5 yrs...

 

Erik- Only for 575Ms and 612s.

Anders- What it comes down to is Ferrari recommends 3 years. Do whatever you bloody well please. It is your car.

Taz
Terry Phillips
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DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT SUPPORT THIS IDEA!
No, I believe it could still save money, even if you had a shop rebuild the engine. Let's say you had the belts done every 3 years, for 4K. Then, one of the cam drive system fails, and it takes out 16 valves, and the rebuild costs 16K. How much is that to have repaired? The BIG variable here is: How long will the cam drive system go before it fails? If you make it 12 yrs, you've broke (no pun intended) even. I will add that, personally, I think it is "sick" to, purposely, let any machine self-destruct.

 

3 Hours???? Wow your good, whats your secret?

 

Thanks Terry.....THERE it is boys, in black and white and a few colors!! LOL!

3 hours is probably doable if your A/C has been removed...the compressor slows you down a little reaching the front bank.....

 

This topic has been covered a ton, and as a new 328 owner, I have read everything I can on the subject. I am no means a expert, but have some experience and history of my car.

I have done timing belts on Fiat's. Alfa, and all sorts of goofy cars, so when I got the 328, I figured, no big deal.

My car is a two owner car, and I have all the service records. The car was purchased in 1989, and had it's first belt change a Patrick Ottis in California in 1997 at about 15k. Then it was done again at Ferrari of SF in 2004 with 29k. I purchased the car in 2008, and had the belts done at Ron Tonkin Ferrari in 2009 at 35k, and inspected the parts afterward. The belts looked a bit worn, but not failing. The bearings were a bit dry, but not coming apart, but were glazed.

So from the history of my car, that went 7 plus years on the belts without issue from the previous owners, but I have no idea what the parts look liked when removed. For me, I am looking at a 3-5 year interval as a plan. Watching other things like the water pump and accessory belts, well help determine my plan. When I got my car, I was going to do the belts myself, but having a Ferrari mechanic work on my car gives me a bit of piece of mind, and the service was not that unreasonable in my opinion. I just made sure that the parts were the ones I wanted to use.

Anyway, I try to follow Ferrari recommendations for the car, and use the best parts available, some factory parts, some updated parts, but want to keep the car original.

Bottom line, it's your car, do what makes you feel comfortable, and understand the risks.

 

BigTex, Any particular reason why one of your cars is at 14 years?

So we have a 14 years, 7+ years, 26 years....but Ferrari covers themselves by recommending every 3 years...mmmm, I still think 3 years is overkill.

 

Only because you are failing to consider all the factors.

 

I was thinking the same

 

You are correct. I really haven't worked on cars in 30 years and very new to Ferrari...Rgds

 

The post was about belts and tensioners, that's all I was referring to, not the entire major, cam seals, timing, etc., plus all the "might as wells". To pull the fender liner, drain the coolant remove the pipe, wp and alt belts and timing belt covers, and change the belts and tensioners....ok, maybe 4 hours.

The point is, whether you're doing your own work, or not, I don't think it makes financial sense to just leave the belts until they go and then do a motor rebuild. With that frame of mind, what else is not getting done? These are the 308s that then sell for $18k-$22k and drag the whole market down.

Whether it's Ferrari, or Porsche, or BMW, or a '69 Mustang, or a brand new Camaro, if you want the car to last and run in tip-top condition throughout its life, you need to maintain it. This isn't a unique concept to Ferrari. It's the way things were prior to the mid 70s, people maintained their cars, had them serviced per the manufactures specs. The concept of "throw-away" started maybe mid 70s when leasing became a more prevalent financing option and suddenly everyone was driving around in a brand new car every 39 months. And no one knew much more about the car they were driving than how to put gas in them.

Nothing wrong with it, but if that's what you want, go get a the newest, latest, soulless, self parking Lexus coming off the line. Forget thinking about maintenance, you don't even need to know how to park it,

Otherwise, get the belts changed every 3 years or so.

The answer isn't going to change just because it keeps getting asked.

Phil

 

It takes me an hour just to get the car on jack stands. But I agree, there is no good reason for not changing the belts often at an interval you feel comfortable with. 5-6 years works fine for me.

 

I agree, lifting the car was a bigger PIA than changing the belts. About 4-5 months ago I gave in and bought a scissor lift.

An absolute pleasure! Now the car is lifted safely in 5 minutes, I don't know how I did without it for so long.

Phil