The Ferrarichat F1 Overtaking Thread

I thought that rather than have the same debate after every race, as I suspect Bahrain won't be the only dull one this season, it might be an idea to have a thread dedicated to discussing ways of making F1 more entertaining.
I have often argued that the way to go is to reduce the modern reliance on aero-grip and to increase mechanical grip. I have said that the wings should be either removed or at least made to give no downforce if they have to stay for advertising reasons. I argued that tyres should be softer and grippier so they won't last the race and the drivers have to either preserve them or go as fast as they can, but have more pit-stops. I also advocated the return of steel brakes so the braking zones were longer.
Then I read this article: http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_item.php?fes_art_id=40241
In it the author shares the thoughts of an un-named F1 team boss who puts forward the argument that the problem is that the tyres are too soft and grippy now. He says we should keep the aero-grip, but lose more mechanical grip by having very hard tyres. This would make going off-line easier as there would be no 'marbles'. I can see the logic of the argument. If each car had to make say 20 sets of tyres last the season then you can be sure that the track wouldn't get so messy off-line. If you have ever walked the track after an F1 race you will know how much rubber is left at the sides of the track. I'm not 100% convinced though as if the cars have great aero, but hardly any mechanical grip surely following another car would be even harder than it is now?
The other proposal in the article about reversed grids I am less keen on as it seems so contrived. There must be a way for qualifying to be an exciting competition to see who is the fastest and then for the slower guys to still win the race in a 'tortoise and hare' type race.

Thoughts?

 

The one constraint one must always have in mind is that F1, per definitionem, needs to be the fastest racing series, or at least the fastest formula series. Unfortunately, most of the ways to increase overtaking make the cars slower.

 

A lot of the problem is with the tracks not the cars.

 

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/03/getting-rid-of-aero-in-f1-the-counterargument/

Very interesting reading with similar opinion on mechanical grip

 

Erm, no. In the 1960s F1 was a 1500cc formula. There were plenty of faster cars. Even when the formula went to 3 litres, they were not the fastest cars of the day. Actually, only lately, relatively speaking, has F1 been the fastest, and only because other formulae have been restricted. So demanding that F1 be the fastest is historically false. The only reason F1 needs to be fastest now is because the actual racing is so poor.

And let's clear up one thing right now: steel brakes do not significantly increase stopping distance. So long as a brake is able to lock the wheels, it is as good as any other, as far as being a brake. The advantage of carbon brakes is weight reduction, not stopping power. Some may still rem Williams fitting steel brakes for Zanardi as he wasn't happy with carbon.

But the basic idea is correct: more overtaking requires longer braking zones. How to make the braking zones longer? Reduce grip. The idea of lower mechanical grip with plentiful aero grip has been tried: that's what the damn grooves were all about. We saw how that worked,or rather didn't.

I you want more overtaking, the cars have to be able to follow closely, and spend more time in the braking zone. So remove, or neuter, wings, and reduce mechanical grip as well by mandating hard tyres. Engines and gearboxes must last multiple races, why not tyres? It's not as if that's technically impossible. At the very least, mandate that only one air gun be allowed in the pit box. A driver could change a puncture, but changing four tyres would be prohibitively time-consuming.

I can live with F1 not being the fastest; it rarely has been. I can't say I'm happy with the state of the racing; it's rarely been worse. Sadly, F1 has become "too big to fix." The money is pouring in, and no one has the guts to do major surgery on the golden-egg-laying goose, regardless of the fact that it's clearly deathly ill.

 

Absolutely correct.
If you want passing on the track make the cars bunch up and draft down the straight to the extended brake zones.
If passing in the pits is OK (strategy) then refueling has to make a comeback.
As far as putting in the young gun drivers with something to prove do we really want a grid of Takuma Sato's ? Maybe so. 3 year term on superlicense.

 

I heard a suggestion that blue flags should be abolished - make overtaking backmarkers a skill of racing rather than a right of passage and you might see some real excitement when positions 2 and 3 start catching up with the race leader.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Excellent point.
1)In spite of it's popularity, a track like Monaco is only a parade most of the time. Not much of a real race for those of us who like to see overtaking, even though it is a spectacular venue. But if you want spectacular scenery, how about a race in the Alps or the Amalfi coast (not practical, I know)! Oh, that's right, those places wouldn't have the money that Mr E loves to command.....
2) More chicanes=less opportunity to pass.
3)Wider tracks and wider corners? Banked corners, so that everyone doesn't have to go through single file?

 

Engines. Remove the damn rev-limiter.

 

I like this idea! if the backmarkers are so slow why should they have to move over for the fastest guy in the race.

 

Like there was so much passing before them?

 

1 engine per weekend (which can be refitted during practice sessions during other weekends until it blows), delete idiotic rev limiter.

All this cost cutting is making races boring and costing fans (and that surely will cost money too!). I have never voluntarily missed an F1 race in the last 12 years, nor a qualifying session. Since practice is aired on TV, I haven't missed a single one of them either.

Yet tomorrow morning, I can't be bothered getting out of bed early.

 

Lottery qualifying. There WILL be overtaking.

 

Right. Its not enough of a circus as it i

 

F1 needs and fans want exciting racing right now. The fastest and cheapest way to achieve that right now is to shuffle the field. Going to lottery qualifying isn't a permanent solution, but will provide time for the OWG to find a real solution.

 

Ever notice how temporary measures tend to become permanent? Like taxes.

 

LOL... permanence in F1 rules... sh*t, that's funny.

 

Re braking distances; Why not dramatically reduce swept area? Lots lighter, longer braking distances and possibly some transfer to road cars.

Contrived rules of any sort just mask underlying problems(see NFL's recent OT rules); they include mandating pitstops,regulating tire use and diminished benefits of winning.

TV viewing of races is part of the problem as the pure spectacle does not translate well, so these cheesy rules are, sadly, part of the show.

 

Instead of one longer race, two shorter ones. The finishing order of the first race reversed becomes the starting order of the second race. Second race points = first race points x2. To top it off, further stretch the points gap between first and second places.

It would probably be total mayhem but I for one would LMAO. Especially the first corner of the second race. I think I'm tired of "technology" and would really like to see demonstrations of true driving talent and strategy.

 

This one is easy. Stop using the best drivers in the world! Rookies every year!

No overtaking has been an issue for YEARS!!! and now this year everyone is sick of it? haha you guys are too funny!

 

If that is true, this season should turn out to be better than most. I don't see a Hamilton among them.

 

Given what some of these suggestions imply about the stateof F1 it seems that Max's revenge is complete.

 

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

I guess this is where we beg to differ..... There's *never* been enough overtaking in F1 for some "fans". Always has been that way and always will be IMHO. Don't like it? Then please go and watch the taxicabs going round and round.

I'll put it here, again; Jochen Rindt in an open letter from 1968:

I'm with Fred's comments on this - While Bahrain sucked lets give it a few more races before we declare the death of F1 (Again!).

BTW, out here on the left coast the TV time's aren't too bad for once - I guess I'll be about the only person watching

Cheers,
Ian

 

Indeed. [Steve, we know your feelings already ]