??? Exhaust options for the Scuderia and 16M ???

I'm looking to replace my stock exhaust system, due to several reasons (applies to the 16M and Scuderia).

1) The flaps stay close below 3,200 rpm despite of being at wide-open-throttle, and the lack of power is noticeable. Once I pass the 3,200 rpmn at WOT there is a surge on acceleration due strictly to the valves bypassing the muffler.

2) Leaving the flaps (valves) on bypass mode permanently, produces good and linear power across the entire powerband, but the sound and resonance at low rpm (under 3,000 rpm) is not nice at all.

3) The stock system has a combo header/cats, then the secondary bigger cats, then a muffler with two independent chambers for each cylinder bank. With the valves open, the muffler is bypassed, so the only devices softening the sound are the four cats.

I like the high pitch produced by some Ferraris like the 348, 355 with Capristo and sport cats, and some 360. I'm not a fan of the 360 Stradale, 360 Challenge, 430 Scuderia and 16M or 430 Challenge sound, all these cars sound like 2 Honda Civic engines with straight pipes.

430 Scuderia systems that I have heard so far (videos) with nice high pitch sound, the Kreissieg F1, and a muffler bypass system built in NorCal by TT Competizione. Other than these two, the videos from the Tubi and Novitec produce a similar sound to stock.

I'm also interested on weight savings from the bulky system installed by the factory. There is easily 90+ lbs of exhaust hardware that can be reduced to 25 lbs with the right construction and materials.

From some measurements I took, it seems that headers, catalytic converters and the muffler itself are compatible between the Scuderi/16M and the standard F430, the exception being the pipes from the mufflers to the outlet which are radically different between the F430/Spider and the Scuderia/16M.

Worth considering is a set of headers with the pre-cats deleted (Joe Fabiani's headers), and sport cats, combined with a low restriction but good sound lightweight muffler. With the corresponding ECU tuning, the Scuderia can gain another 20-30 rwhp.

 

Are you sure re: gain from new headers on a Scuderia?
I thought that only the regular F430 has pre-cats in the header, not the Scuderia

 

Scuderia and 16M have precats in the header as well, plus bulky secondary cats. Lots of restriction there.

 

We just delivered a Kreisseig system to a member on the board. He can probably comment on the system. I will get pictures of the new scuderia system from Capristo pretty nice system.

I don't understand why the stock exhaust valves don't open at full throttle at low rpm.

 

Never rely on videos. The videos I have heard sound nothing like the real deal. Also the novitec is pretty much mufflerless like the TT system. The Tubi sounds nothing like stock in real life.

The Kreissieg seems to have the highest pitch. Its also the most expensive, too much for an exhaust imo.

 

Here is a picture of the Capristo, weighs 26lbs which seems perfect.


I'm not allowed to post images I guess
http://www.vividracing.com/forums/gallery/files/1/5/2/0/1/430_capristo_exhaustz.jpg

They also make a complete exhaust. The headers look pretty impressive, I like the 4-2-1 design. I bet these actually keep horsepower and torque gains high.
http://www.vividracing.com/forums/gallery/showimage.php?i=13175&c=227

 

Is anyone running a true straight pipe system on a Scud? No mufflers, no cats?

 

I have KS exh in my scud and the quality is very nice also the sound..

Very good product...

 

I thought the 355 had it's distinctive shout because of it's 5 valves per cylinder design, which was dropped with the 360...

 

How much does the Kreisseig system cost and does it come with the remote valves? I have not found that a lot of folks in the usa know much about them.

 

My interest is on a system with better headers design (the factory design compromises performance drastically), low restriction cats, and a light muffler preferably with valves. I like the high pitch sound from some F430/360/355/348 systems, and I don't like the stock sound of the 360CS, 360CH, F430CH, Scuderia and 16M.

 

There is one 16M here in the UK that has no cats and straight through. It was too loud and lost its tone. We dont have precats in europe so i assume this has an affect on the sound.

 

Exactly,I'm pretty sure EU Scud and 16M have no precats..

The KS exhaust is very well built but very heavy too,around 27kgs, 6 more than the stock one! (catback)
Systems with valves are always heavier than without,and the problem with acceleration at low rpms will always be there I guess..
Since i installed the Tubi with no valves i noticed a big improvement at low rpms due to the lack of the valves.

 

This Capristo system looks promising, based on the headers design, the sport cats, and the not overly complex muffler. It should save plenty of weight as well.

Regarding the valve control, I'm going to develop a switch to have the exhaust full quiet 100% of the time or full loud 100% of the time whether it is this capristo or the standard system. That should let me pass sound at Laguna Seca.

In addition to a system like this, there is the internal polishing of the carbon boxes to improve airflow and the BMC air filters.

Once everything is installed, drop the car to my favorite ECU tuner to remap the fuel/air maps and take advantage of the new power. My guess is that the Scuderia should get close to 550 Hp (around 475 rwhp) on 91 octane fuel, and 570Hp on race fuel.
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Let us know how you make out. The system looks promising, Scuderia weight with 458 HP

What does this retail for?

 

scuds and 16m's do not have the precats in the header...that is one reason they added air injection into the headers of the scud and 16m...i just put a set of fabspeed headers on a scud and had to disable the air injection...no check engine light yet?!?!? we will keep our fingers crossed...didn't really feel much of a gain in power either! they looked really good though!

 

Hi F430GT, Capristo has a programmable remote control system for the valves with 3 modes that you program when the valves start to open & close etc. You then can select which mode you want while driving, you can order it as an option with the Capristo or you can just buy it & install it on pretty much any Ferrari or any valved exhaust system on the market.

http://www.capristo-usa.com/capristo_021.htm

 

tech4ferrari, thanks for the clarification on the Scuderia headers and pre-cats. I think the stock headers are very restrictive (no equal length tubing), and so are the stock cats.

At full throttle, the stock Scuderia opens the valves at 3,200 rpm. With light throttle the valves stay close up to 6,000 rpm where they open despite of the throttle position.

I'm thinking on placing a button where the Euro cars have the L.C. button. This LC labeled button will control the mufflers, so if I press this button, I can have the valves fully closed at all RPM (passing sound at Laguna Seca), and depressing the button gets the system back to normal. I don't think a full 100% open valves setup is necessary, because there is no business of running this car below 3,200 rpm if one wants to run loud.

For a flying Laguna Seca lap, you can press the button as you approach Turn 5 and press it again once approaching turn 7.

 

I just ordered new headers and cats (and BMC filters) from Jeremy at Fabspeed and they are going to put on the secondary air rail to the new headers.. also they are doing some ECU programming as well..

I will be getting before and after dyno runs and post the results up as soon as the install is complete!

 

Did you instal high flow cats as well and do a remap of the ECU or just the Fabspeed headers. Interesting you didn't really notice any seat of the pants gains, would appreciate your further comments as I am considering for my new Scuderia new headers, my existing high flow cats from my previous 430 & possible ECU remap.

Very interested to hear all real world comments re possible hp gains.

 

Rick,

We just finished fabricating the air-injection rails on Fabspeed Headers for your 09 Scuderia : ) The Headers and Cats are all packaged up and waiting for FedEx to pick-up!

I figured I would take some pictures to share with everybody. Here are a couple pictures of the Fabspeed Scuderia/16M Headers with Air Injection Lines, and Fabspeed Scuderia/16M 200 Cell Tri-metallic HJS Cats.

If anybody has any questions regarding the Fabspeed products for your Scuderia/16M contact me directly and I would be more than happy to help you out!

[email protected]
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Jeremy, those look amazing!! It's a damn shame they can't be see after the install!!

I will make sure to post all my results and pix of the install!!

 

What are the air injection rails for ?

 

The Scuderia and 16M have Air injection system on the stock headers just like the F360 and F355 cars. Secondary Air Injection is an emissions system that pumps clean air into the exhaust on startup.
Fabspeed installs the rails on our headers just like factory so you do not need to disable system and worry about CEL issues.

 

I did not know this! Thanks for the heads up. No one likes CEL.