Notion? Please let me quote you. 'Virtually all past champions have been fast their rookie season' I've already named quite a few top notch drivers who were humbled by various margins in their first season in both points and qualifying. What on earth does it matter who it was who handed them their 'B' status as rookies. The drivers I mentioned were exceptional at their peak (those who made it..) Once again; Lauda , Mansell, Rindt, J.Villeneuve, G. Villeneuve, Hulme, Raikkonen, Clark and Stewart. Decent list of exceptions, no ? There are others btw. I have another notion for you. Check your stats before making a comment so easily dismissed .
Isobel, JV qualified on pole for his first F1 race and was in contention for the WDC, hardly a poor rookie season. Plus Lauda (one of my heros) was let down by a below par car: Ronnie Peterson, his team mate, only managed to score 12 points and we all know how good Ronnie was ... but yes he did beat Lauda. I wonder how they compared in qualifying? Pete
Well, lets wait until he really retires. 2011 might be an entirely different game. I'm not gloating btw. It was no pretty picture watching him struggle in the rain with his shot tires.
At this stage I will be surprised if he completes the season, and will be doubly surprised if he returns in 2011. It's not the car, Rosberg is way faster. Pete
No, our bet was Shumi scoring more points than Alonso. I'm ready to concede that won't happen this year... But I might want to repeat the bet in 2011
Ah yes, sorry. I was thinking of my agreement with NeuroBreaker. I'm willing to take that bet again for 2011. And 2012. Alonso is faster than MS and Ferrari builds better race cars than Merc.
One could not have said this before the modern era, most definitely. This is why returning to a sport you once dominated is risky. Pete
True. That comment was only about the modern era. I truly believe that Merc is going to be just another Toyota/BMW/Honda.
Fine then, let's go again for 2011 and 2012. (I can't believe I'm doing this. Apparently my dislike of Alonso knows no bounds...) PM me with how you want this year's win.
No. The huge difference between Toyota/BMW/Honda and Merc is that Merc is running on Brawn GP budget and staff levels. Their head count isn't even half of Ferrari or McLaren. The other reason they'll never be like those other manufacturers is that they've got Ross Brawn. And not quite fair to lump Honda with BMW and Toyota considering they built the car that won the WCC. MS has been having trouble getting the power down. I wonder if he's just not able to cope with the lack of traction control.
Exactly. Mercedes wouldn't have allowed Brawn to keep 25% of the team if they just planned to run it like a corporate zombie. And Brawn wouldn't have stuck around if he wasn't going to run it his way. (I just wish Luca never let him get away in the first place ) I see them winning by the 2nd half of the season and being a strong contender for the championship in 2011.
If that's true, they may as well let MS get clobbered by Rosberg and take all the PR....if MS stays that is.
As much as Michael is sucking right now, the one thing he won't do is quit. He will at least finish out the season.
Sounds good to me. It'd be really nice if he manages to win a race. Agreed. That would at least build up Rosberg. I expected MS to be beaten by Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton, but not by the rest. Watching him getting passed by rookie Petrov was just unnecessary roughness.
I think that you're right on both points. The thread topic is about Michael winning, not Mercedes, though
I had to look for something positive after that drive yesterday... He'll still win. It'll just have to wait till next year.
Yup, that was just sad. It's clear that the car suits Nico more than Schuey. Poor guy struggling with break bias and balance all weekend. The new rear wing made matters worse and re-complicated an already complicated issue. What's clear as a bell is the Red Bull car makes mediocre consintently back-of-the-pack running drivers (Webber) look superior. It's impossible to know who is truly great right now due to the gap in cars for the top 10 drivers. All part of the game I guess.
I have thought long about this and I go with my gut instinct NO he won't. He will win races, but I think a WDC is stretching it. The last race, well I almost felt sorry for him, and I never thought I would feel like that. Maybe if he does win a race it will fire him up to be like the winner of old, it's as if he has mellowed and the angry ruthless hot heads like LH have taken on that side of him. However..... What makes me think twice is that, it was not long ago most folk had written off Button (before and during BrawnGP) as finished and never will win again, and a WDC was unthinkable. Brawn and MS almost a given combination for success..... I'am talking myself out of changing my mind again here, but I did say I would vote after the last race so much as I like to say yes its a No, the desire of the youngsters wins ....
From a post I did in 08 "Here is an interesting fact; Out of curiosity I took the Q1 qualifying times for all 06 races for Rosberg and Webber and added each of theirs up. Forget Q3 or Q2. Sometimes one would make it and the other wouldn't so scratch those. Forget finishing position because of Dnf's. Rosberg ended up being 9.5 seconds faster cumulatively than Webber over the season. Fact." So those that say Webber dominated Rosberg are looking at only one stat and the wrong one.
I don't accept the notion that the stat you present is the right one, either. Points are awarded for race ending position, not qualifying time in in Q1, where being fast enough to get into to Q2 is the only goal.
Agree, now if it was Q3 then I'd say fair enough, but Q1 is only important to get into Q2, so there is no way of knowing if they were both pushing hard or not. As you say a meaningless stat. Pete
