Chinese GP RACE **spoiler**

I think i prefer the old SC rules, where the SC picks up even a backmarker in the pack, rather than moving aside and allowing them to pass. Plus, no overtaking before the star/finish line should be implemented.

 

As a Tifosi, its painful to see a car starting from 5th and 6th from quali manage to get a 1-2 finish while a car that starts from 3rd and 7th finishes with 4th and 9th placing.

Yes FA was made a mistake with the jump start but from the past 3 races with unpredictable weather conditions, Ferrari has made the wrong call.

The team have to really REALLY buck up (even in chaotic weather conditions) else the remaining of the races will see us slipping even more.

 

Disagree. Lewis is showing that he has the same race strategy as everybody else, but is better at making up ground against those who gamble correctly. I don't get how you can equate Button's good decisions to stay out in the rain as being Hamilton's "poor understanding of race long strategy". Almost everyone else has done what Hamilton does in the variable conditions. Button has just gotten the strategy right while everyone else p!sses on themselves.

Hamilton is doing an EXCELLENT job and out-driving everyone else. If they get the strategy right, eventually he'll convert some of those rises up the grid into actual wins.

 

Never were allowed to pass before the start-finish line in my day, because that is where the first green flag is displayed.

I understand your concerns regarding being held up as it has happened to me, but it is otherwise too dangerous and makes no sense, ie. when do you allow passing to start?

Pete

 

Which also includes LH, which brings me back to my point.

If LH would just slow down and take his time up the field he would save his tyres and a pitstop. While I applaud his charges you can charge without having to do nuts and kill your car and tyres. Prost used to do it all the time, slowly during the race he would pick off the guys in front one by one so that on the last lap he was either winning or very close to that. He did not try and pass everybody in 10 laps like LH is trying to do.

Not smart. And again if he had listened more to the 2 time WDC he had as his team mate once upon a time he would have learnt more about race long strategy. Currently all he knows is to go flat out all the time.

The only time he will win is if he starts from pole or leads after the first few corners because he is over using his tyres trying to pass and battle people. Again needs to relax and remember a race is ~70 laps long and to pace his car, etc.

He's good but not yet the full package ...
Pete
ps: Note how Alonso got up to 4th place after a drive through penalty, thus I believe he had to pass more cars, and the same number of tyre changes ... a superior drive by a more patient driver.

 

I still don't understand where the danger lies. Passing starts as soon as the green flag is thrown.

 

I don't think this is the case anymore, or where is the flag shown? Can all drivers see this flag - answer know, but all drivers no where the start finish line is hence why it always used to be that passing started when you crossed the start finish line (this is where traditionally the first green flag is shown, but you have to go past it before you can pass).

What we saw at China was cars going all over the place as passing just happened. Not sure when it started but it resulted in atleast one car being shoved off the track.

You need a difinitive point on the track, not just when ever the drivers feel like it or happen to see a green flag.

Even David Coulthard and Martin Brundle were confused over the new rules and exactly where passing could start. Just imagine the accidents that could happen with say some drivers thinking that you cannot pass yet but another does ...
Pete

 

To my best of knowledge, in most 'significant' race series in both Asia and Europe, there is just NO passing before crossing the start finish line. Same with GP2.

Everyone knows when the safety car is in so you have to be awake. As soon as the driver directly in front of you opens the taps, you do the same. You snooze, you lose. I think its a good rule.

 

Again, disagree. I know it's the popular thing to say he's chewing up his tyres, but he basically has the same number of changes as everyone else and usually is among the latter group to change.

Once we get to dry conditions, there will be a better gauge of what's going on but I think people expect that he's chewing his tyres up faster because he's so aggressive, but the reality is that he's basically in the same boat as everyone else. Considering that, shouldn't he make his passes up the grid BEFORE the tyres start to go off? At the end of the day, he consistently finishes far ahead of where he starts, so I just don't see the problem.

Or, to put it another way, would we be having this debate if he had the same pit strategy as Button or vice-versa? I severely doubt it.

 

Everybody except Button have gotten the wet strategy wrong. The variable conditions will make some look like geniuses while others look like lunkheads. If it were just wet or just dry, we wouldn't see the problems.

 

Of course not, but that would require LH to stop chewing up his tyres with his over aggressive driving ... so we are back to my point that a race is ~70 laps long and he drives like its a 15 lap sprint.

Pete

 

Sorry no passing before the start-finish line which is where the first green flag should be shown was implemented for very valid safety reasons and should be reinstated.

We have already seen the result of this stupid rule with cars (Webber) being punted off left right and centre. We were only lucky at that track because Webber had run off. If that had happened at Monaco, or even Monza we would have half the field removed in a single accident.

Do we really want to result to NASCAR type accidents to make F1 interesting?
Pete

 

Evidently LH agree's with you Pete.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83067

 

i wonder if he was tugging at his ear and rubbing his nose when he said all that?

 

I think it's unfair for Hamilton to say that Button has taken the easier way. If it was that easy, everybody would be doing it. I think it's the other way around. It's hard to be careful with the tires instead of blasting through the field with the tires only lasting for a couple of laps. I think Button did it the intelligent way.

 

It will be a sad day for F1 if LH drove like JB. I for the one like the charging fighter as opposed to the play it safe procession driver.

 

No matter what we think, even after Bahrain and all the wet races, its tire preservation while remaining smooth and fast that is a winning combination. Along with GOOD qualifying. I think JB has a real edge due to good qualifying as well. Im sure LH will adjust and make gains as well.

 

I think he means get the pit strategy right instead of finding yourself in 16th position and having to carve up the field to get to 2nd place. I agree completely with that, which is the point I was making: if they get the pit strategy right, he wins the race. If he doesn't come in early for inters, he wins the race.

It's that simple...

 

Again, we're talking two different things. If Hamilton doesn't pit early and drop back to 16th place, he wouldn't HAVE to carve up the field to get to second. If he had Button's strategy, there's nobody to have to fight through.

His carving up through the grid is due to bad pit strategy, but it's essential if he wants to get maximum points. And remember, he pitted early so it wasn't even about worn tires. It was about "the rain may be coming soon so let's get you changed before you get caught out in it".

Button said "when it comes, I'll change tires"...

 

Hamilton, China, Tires.
A tale of woe.

 

Second place is a tale of woe?

Tell me about Massa and Schumacher while you are at it.

 

Good points from all above, end of the day Button is playing it like I suspected he would, shrewdly!. There is no point in Button attempting to beat Lewis in raw pace he is one of the best, if not the best.

I also think Button has been under estimated in the past.

Given the right circumstances Button will continue to pick up points here and there, and keep himself in with a shout of another WDC.

Like him or not LH is a dream to watch, and every race he is talked about in one way or another, I wouldn't want him to change his style.

I reckon Mclaren must be pleased with the results of the two, they have two different style of drivers and both are doing well.

 

A bit of the old rabbit/hare story.
Thing is that Button really has little room to improve his game while Lewis, already having the speed, may be able to improve his race-craft. IMO if he can learn a bit of strategic restraint while keeping his speed he will be unbeatable.

 

True, however Buttons game is being consistant, 10 point lead not bad so far, he need not be the fastest man out there and he knows it, boring as it maybe to some it works.

Lewis IMO still suffers from red mist and I reckon he hates it with a passion when someone gets the better of him, you can just tell by the way he drives, everyone on the track in front of him in his eyes is his next victim, his quest for winning can/could be over ruling his strategic head.

I think this happened to him in the pits with Vettel, Vettel will be his nemesis in future battles.

Your right though with restraint unbeatable.

 

Fantastic ad-libs from you lot throughout the race. "Vortep" - Ha!

Even as he dropped through the ranks in the last series, The Shoe didn't throw a wet rooster tail until after he was passed for the final time. Methinks they need to watch Game Film on Monday, and let him know he's robbing himself. The same for Ferrari, as it was beyond asinine to supersize fried tires.

Thus far . . .

Result -- Initials-Tally -- Score -- Driver

07 01 08 01 JB 60 = 06 25 04 25 Jenson Button

05 05 03 03 NR 50 = 10 10 15 15 Nico Rosberg

01 04 13 04 FA 49 = 25 12 00 12 Fernando Alonso

03 06 06 02 LH 49 = 15 08 08 18 Lewis Hamilton

04 XX 01 06 SV 45 = 12 M 25 08 Sebastian Vettel

02 03 07 09 FM 41 = 18 15 06 02 Felipe Massa

11 02 04 05 RK 40 = 00 18 12 10 Robert Kubica

08 09 02 08 MW 28 = 04 02 18 04 Mark Webber

12 XX 05 11 AS 10 = 00 M 10 00 Adrian Sutil

06 10 XX 10 MS 10 = 08 01 M 01 Michael Schumacher

09 07 XX XX VL 08 = 02 06 M A Vitantonio Liuzzi

XX XX XX 07 VP 06 = M A M 06 Vitaly Petrov

10 08 12 12 RB 05 = 01 04 00 00 Rubens Barrichello

13 11 09 13 JA 02 = 00 00 02 00 Jaime Alguersuari

14 XX 10 15 NH 01 = 00 A 01 00 Nico Hulkenberg

16 XX 11 XX SB 00 = 00 A 00 A Sebastien Buemi

XX 12 NS XX PR 00 = M 00 M T Pedro de la Rosa

15 13 XX 14 HK 00 = 00 00 M 00 Heikki Kovalainen

XX 14 15 17 KC 00 = A 00 00 00 Karun Chandhok

XX XX 14 XX LG 00 = M M 00 M Lucas di Grassi

XX XX 16 16 BS 00 = M M 00 00 Bruno Senna

17 XX 17 XX JT 00 = 00 M 00 M Jarno Trulli

XX XX XX XX TG 00 = M M A M Timo Glock

XX XX XX XX KK 00 = M A M A Kamui Kobayashi