328 runs like crappola.....

I would expect with all the other non functioning items that the frequency valve is not buzzing when the motor is running? It is very possible that you have a bad Bosch protection relay. It fits the symptoms. That is the relay you spoke of with the fuse attached to the top.

 

It actually says "Jetronic" (not Motronic)

Measure the voltage on the PN (beige/black) wire connected to the frequency valve when the engine is running -- it should be +12V. Or you can just "feel" the FV when the engine is running - it should be "buzzing"/"vibrating" whenever the engine is running. If you fail those tests, you have three possibilities:

1. The 10A fuse on the protection relay has blown.

2. The protection relay is bad.

3. The alternator has failed, and the fuse on the protection relay has intentionally blown to "protect" the injection ECU from the bad alternator output. If the protection relay fuse is blown, and a new fuse blows immediately, measure the battery voltage (both AC and DC) with the engine running to see if the alternator output is wacky ( i.e., the DC voltage should be in the 13-15V DC range, and the AC voltage should be less than 0.1V AC if the alternator is OK).

If the fuse is OK, and you've confirmed that the alternator output is OKish, you can remove the protection relay and use a jumper wire to connect the 30 terminal in the protection relay socket to the 87 terminal in the protection relay socket to simulate a working protection relay, and see if the running behavior returns to normal.
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Hi Cliff, one thing you might try if you haven't done it already, is to run the electrical test procedure for the Jetronic system. This might help you narrow down the culprit. It's outlined in the 328 technical specifications, service bulletin #80-28. You can find the service bulletings here: http://ferrari.stevejenkins.com/books/328_tech.pdf and a nice how to from Carl Rose, et al here: http://ferrari.cdyn.com/carl_rose_docs/Ferrari%20328%20Fuel%20Injection%20ECU%20Testing.pdf. I would also consider performing a similar test on the microplex (service bulletin #80-29) to see if this might be related to a specific component of the ignition system (http://ferrari.cdyn.com/carl_rose_docs/Ferrari%20328%20Microplex%20ECU%20Testing.pdf) I've performend this before on my 328 and would be happy to help out as I'm just on the other side of the lake from you. If we can't figure it out using the diagnostics we could also try swapping out your neighbor's microplex and or jetronic module with mine and see if that helps narrow down the culprit. Unfortunatlely, work commitments are going to have me tied up for the next couple of weeks. I'll check back in with you at the end of the month and see how things are going.

 

Was the car recently washed? Could be water collecting in the wells around the bell hsg for ignition pickups. Always start with the simple stuff. I caught this on an '81 GTSi.

 

I would check that all the rubber hoses to all parts of the air intake system are sealed up tight and no hoses are split ......... an air leak can make awful running at any revs.

I once had a rental car do exactly the same as is described with the 328 , , I had driven it for days , parked it one night and the next morning it would barely idle and revving was out of the question. A small 3/16" hose had come off and caused all the problems. I guess it must have been nearly off while running and having stopped the engine (and all vacuum lost) the hose finally fell off .......... you dont know about it till the next time you try to start it.

 

I have an 81 GTSi and am always on the lookout for potential problem areas , can you put some pics on with arrows where to look , I just cant visualise it ....

 

This is CLASSICALLY symptomatic of a bad Frequency Valve.

At idle, the engine does not need fuel management input / output from any of those devices to run (albeit, not optimally) except one --- the Frequency Valve. If you can disconnect the connector to the Frequency Valve, and nothing changes --- the valve is not operating correctly (or not operating at all). Why it's not working is either that its power signal is absent or that the valve itself is defective. Use Steve's procedure to see whether you have power to the valve. If it has correct power, it has most likely failed --- replace it.

Good idea to check the relay, too --- it's kind of a toss up as both the relay and the Frequency Valve have high failure rates. I would be very surprised if the fault was anything more exotic (bad ECU, e.g.), and my money is on the Frequency Valve.

 

Have you disconnected - had a cup of coffee - and then re-connected the fully charged battery yet ?

Skin.

 

What possible good would that do?

 

Well... I do find that a nice cup of coffee can be quite relaxing .......

The rest of the suggestion doesn't seem as useful, though..............

 

Reset its flippin brain ?
Ensure the battery is well charged, well connected and providing exitation voltage to the alt so it can start charging and run smoothly ?

I had a bad battery and while it started the car on its last legs it would run like crappola until it cut out from running the plugs until it was dead. While it was running, the windows would not open and the stereo would not play and the car ran like crappola. The battery just did not have enough guts to fire the alternator up.

Whenever a 'thing' gives me sh** I first unplug the 'thing' fully, allow all capacitors to drain by waiting a bit, and then try coupling it up again. Cell phone, cable decoder, BMW M Coupe, Computer, etc.

While its a long shot its not such a bad idea. Come on man.

Skin.

 

The control unit in a 328 is hard programmed. It has zero adaptability.

Sorry but I just hate to see people sent on wild goose chases, spreading inaccurate information and adding to the quanitity of wives tales. There is way too much of that already.

 

I have to agree here...no real computer in a 328 (unless you have a new radio)...no uploading/downloading/floppy drives/RAM/ROM...just circuits. For example, the TPS is only two switches anyway...full open throttle just to set open loop. The ECU sets the "buzz rate" on the frequency valve to control its duty cycle and thus fuel enrichment. The 80-29 TSB test allows you to measure it.

Here's some little stuff you can do:
1. Replace fuses and relays (with some added intelligence and diagrams to see which circuits are faulty...if you can't do this, please don't do anything else). Turn car off and unplug battery first...duh!

2. With car off and battery unplugged, disconnect connectors and clean with electric parts cleaner and Q-Tips; consider putting on some dielectric paste (comes in small tubes...used to prevent corrosion-induced disconnections); reconnect (in proper places of course). You will have to remove the air cleaner assembly to get to the O2 sensor connector. The oil temp switch is on front of and above the oil sump where the blow-by line connects to the engine (varies with country of delivery). I recommend cleaning/insulating any connector you can reach. You will be surprised how this may help electrical stuff.

3. Check/clean/insulate spark plugs.

4. If problem persists (it probably will, but, hey, you will at least have clean electronic connections,eh?), conduct the 80-28 and 80-29 tests.

5. Farting/Spitting can also mean bad fuel, stuff caught in injectors (bad fuel filter), improper operating fuel pressure (could be associated with frequency valve), etc.

After doing all this, please let us know...and, BTW, try to find the chewed-up wire!

Sometimes, time and TLC is what it takes...very few quick fixes, though.

 

I might add that the ignition coil amplifiers go bad with reckless abandon on these things, and I had similar issues with mine. These are the little units plugged in on the top of the ignition coils. You can buy new ones from WEI for $18 each to replace the original Marelli BKL 3BA parts.

Rifledriver can certainly correct and/or elaborate, but when these stinkers fail, you basically don't get good spark to an entire bank of cylinders. They take five minutes to swap by unscrewing the metal shield, removing the existing units, uplugging the existing and plugging in the new one. I basically did one and it changed my car back to normal. I replaced the other just for insurance.

 

All these consequences for suggesting to disconnect and reconnect a properly charged battery ?
I realise that its difficult to miss an opportunity to show your superior knowledge but come on man. Thats a bit dramatic.
So .. Your bum.

Skin.

 

"I realise that its difficult to miss an opportunity to show your superior knowledge but come on man."

Wow, what's that about? We should be glad when someone can explain something and save folks time and effort. Instead, we criticize him for knowing more and explaining it?

Rifle was pointing out that the ECU on these cars does not "learn" as do those of later model cars and that connecting/disconnecting the battery has no effect since there's nothing to be "reset." Isn't it better to understand that and not waste time using it as a troubleshooting step when it cannot help?

 

I have to agree here...328 is not a learner.

BTW, I know a lot, and I know how to conduct proper research, and learn a lot too...

...and I like to show some knowledge (hey, it's fun)...

...however, the experts are still the best resource (I should know...I is one--in my field, of course)...

Thus I have learned plenty from Rifledriver...thanks Brian!
(I do wish he kept his Nick Nolte avatar though)

 

I have an '81 as well. I can't get pictures easily or quickly. The best I can offer is to tell you there are two wire pickup sensors located in the crankcase side of the bellhousing. They detect things like top-dead-center for the two banks, and RPM (IIRC). I've had it happen where it ran terrible after scrubbing down the engine with hot water, soap and brush. The problem was water collected in the previously mentioned wells and wreaked havoc on those sensors. I was pretty tweaked the first time it happened, but after careful drying, and spraying a little compressed air in there, the car ran great. After that experience, I don't allow running water near those things.

 

Thanks mate ! ...... My electrical knowledge is pretty poor but I have read enough to know (I think I know anyway) that those sensors have a certain amount of resistance ... is that right ? .......... so when they get wet and some whater can contaoct both wires maybe the amount of resistance changes or something .. thus the crappy running ?

Bottom line is try to keep them dry and all will be good !!

 

No pal. thats NOT what Rifledriver did. He was smug and condescending.

QUOTE " What possible good would that do ?", When there was no need to ask what possible good it will do if you know perfectly well that there is a flaw in my theory. So the ECU cannot reset. I did not know that. Rather say .. hey skin bud, nice try but the ECU will not reset. But instead he goes on to say that I'm disseminating bad information and contributing to urban legend.. Oh come on. Get off it.
So your backside too pal and anyone else who feels he needs to defend your forum God because he has helped you in the past.

Learn to treat people decently.

Skin.

 

Look bud. Ferrari's are tough machines. And it takes really smart and even tougher guys to keep them rolling. Rifledriver (Brian) is one of them. I've been so impressed with his complete knowledge about these cars. Anyone who listens will almost certainly benefit from his expertise both wrt time and money savings. Don't be offended. Be thankful that Brian and others on this site want to share their knowledge about these cars that we all care about so much and want to help us keep driving for decades to come. Just be happy and remember, if you're a Ferrari owner, it's all good....

 

As a silent observer, let me say thanks to a few folks.

Last fall, my 1989 328 was doing the same thing. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it ran like crappola. Most everyone said it was the extenders, so I replaced those, and it ran fine again. Two weeks later, the problem was back. Over the winter, I sent my wires to Dave Helms to be rebuilt.

After a long winter, I put everything back together, and it started and ran better than ever. Must have been the wires...

A week later, problem was back, so I re-checked all of the wires and extenders. No fix. After reading this thread, I listened for the frequency valve, and it was silent. I ordered a new relay from Mike at Ricambi, and put it in today. Frequency valve is humming along, car runs great. The old relay actually rattles, so I suspect something isn't right inside.

Hopefully that was it. I greatly appreciate the advice and steering towards the problem. Never would have known about the relay or listening for the frequency valve. And the nearest dealer is...well, I live in Alaska, so guess. And with new wires and extenders, it really is running great.

CliffBeer, hope yours is an easy fix, too!