A330 down in Libya

No information on casualties as of yet but it is reported that the airframe had only 1600 hours on it.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/05/12/341857/picture-afriqiyah-airways-flight-crashes-at-libyas-tripoli-airport.html

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/05/12/341874/crashed-libyan-a330-had-logged-just-1600-hours.html

 

1 survivor - 10 year old boy. 104 on board, 103 dead.....some odds.

 

only passenger wearing seat belt and having tray up.

 

ScareBus does it again...

 

Airbus has no mechanical backup systems for flight controlls. Computers go down so does the aircraft.

 

That's exactly why we put cable back up on the 777 and we were laughed at by Airbus. Outboard spoilers and horizontal tail are cable connected.
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So you can fly all the way to crash site?

 

Exactly, if both engines have failed. At least one of the souls on board is not a passenger and the airplane will be under the guidance of a pilot instead of a dead box.

 

"manual reversion" is a fantastic design feature of the 777. You disagree? Have you flown any transport category jets? Just curious?

Cheers

 

It's a bit to early to speculate, isn't it? A/c crashed 1 NM short of the airport, so it probably had enough controls to bring it on short final....... That's also wthat scares me. The immense devastation......... You won't expect that on 1 NM final so let's say 300 ft an aircraft would hit ground that hard that there is hardly anything that reminds us of an aircraft.......

If you refer to the 2009 crash of a Turkish Airlines 737 which stalled in Amsterdam, that still looked pretty much like an aircraft after impact and that came down vertically.
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The 727 had AMR as well as three hydraulic systems that portions of which powered the controls. If all three systems failed the flight controls were still operable using tabs and aerodynamic balance panels to assist in their movement.
From pictures of the A330 crash site it looks like it had to have hit very hard nose first to disintegrate that completely.
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So does the DC-8. Both the rudder and the ailerons have a manual reversion mode in the form of aerodynamic servotabs. Elevator control is manual and makes use of an aerodynamic servotab.

So does the DC-9 series. The rudder is hydraulically powered but with manual reversion using a control tab similar to the ailerons and elevators.

I am not impressed with Middle East carriers with the exceptions being Emirates, Etihad and Qatar. They typically hire qualified ex-pat pilots to augment their direct entry ab initio pilots.

I don't speculate on crashes but it seems you may be correct in your assumption of a nose low attitude? Plastic is not as strong as titanium and aluminum!

Cheers

 

I don't believe that the Douglas airplanes had aerodynamic balance panels in concert with the servo-tabs.

 

After looking at the video in the link it looks more like a midair explosion occurred hence scattering over a wide area.

What would spread things out like that? Hitting the ground at high speed?

 

I could mention how awesome the manual flight controls are in the KC-135 but one of the KC-10 guys would tell me how completley wrong I am.

 

I have to agree. A 30 to 40 degree angle and high speed would do that kind of damage. I have seen the wreckage of a 707 and a B-50 that went in steep and hard but the dismemberment and debris spread wasn't like this.

 

Read my post again, I did not write that they did. I was referring to "manual reversion."

I dont see anywere in my post the words "aerodynamic balance panels in concert with the servotabs"

Hope this clarifies things for you!

AILERONS:
The DC8 has two (inboard, outboard) ailerons on each wing. The outboard ailerons are connected to the inboard aileron by a torque (slip clutch) linkage, and at low airspeeds and airloads, follow inboard aileron movement. To prevent over-controlling at higher airspeeds, airloads "freeze" the outboard aileron in the faired position, and all lateral control is accomplished with inboard aileron movement only.

The inboard ailerons have aerodynamic boost (control) tabs, which are directly connected to the control wheel through a manual reversion mechanism. When hydraulic pressure is available to the aileron, this tab is locked mechanically, and hydraulic pressure is routed through control valves to move the entire aileron. If hydraulic power is lost, the spring-loaded reversion mechanism allows the tab to operate by direct mechanical linkage from the pilot’s control wheel. When the wheel is moved, the tab is deflected and the aileron is "flown" to a new position to achieve the desired roll rate.

RUDDER:
The DC8 rudder is normally powered hydraulically by the left aircraft hydraulic manifold. A standby rudder pump is provided as an alternate hydraulic source. When powered hydraulically, the entire rudder is moved in response to pilot inputs. Should hydraulic power be unavailable, a rudder boost (control) tab is provided to "fly" the rudder to the required position.

The manual reversion mechanism determines whether the rudder pedal input will be mechanically linked to the hydraulic actuator, or the aerodynamic boost tab . Its operation is identical to that of the aileron. If hydraulic power is available, it is held in a POWER ON mode.

A rudder load limiter restricts the rudder to one third hydraulic pressure and travel to prevent over controlling in high speed (flaps up) flight.

ELEVATOR:
The elevator has no hydraulic input. It is strictly mechanical.
Two types of aerodynamic boost tabs are provided. The elevator control tabs, moved by the pilots, and the geared tabs, moved by the stabilizer when it is trimmed.

The elevator and control tabs are directly connected to the pilot's yoke. Initial movement of the yoke will reposition the aero_dynamic control tabs. When tab limits are reached, further yoke movement will result in limited movement of the entire elevator.

The geared tabs are designed to keep the elevator faired with the stabilizer to allow full control authority of the elevator as the stabilizer leading edge moves throughout the stabilizer trim

 

Thanks, I assumed that what you were referring to was the same thing that thinking, a control power boost with the aerodynamic balance panels inside the wing like the 707, 727. I enjoyed your description of the DC-8 system because being a Boeing guy for many years didn't allow me access to DC-8 stuff. The high speed outboard aileron lock-out sounds similar to the Boeing stuff.
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My pleasure. The DC-8 flies like a truck but it is a proven design with a very strong three spar wing, and like all Douglas products has no "time life limit" on the airframes which allows them to still be in service with many carriers private and commercial.

Cheers