How 'runnable' are the early Esprits?

No real frame to speak of, more of a stamped steel backbone the the the big plastic thing is screwed to. It is however galvanized so less likely to rust.

Parts are ridiculously expensive and only available from a few places.

Some gearbox parts are ?

I've worked on a few "cheap" Esprits. The purchase price was only a down payment.

Compared to a 308 an Esprit seems like a toy. The turbos are amazingly quick (if you can get over the "sewing machine" sound). A non-turbo car is just disappointing at best.
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THe S1 and S2 did not get the galvanized chassis (came in later models)and it is real hard to determine the condition of the pressed metal "frame" which hides under the fibreglass where water can collect. The frame is a masterpiece and was a brilliant idea conceived with the Elan and Europa (I am a former Europa owner) Buy a California one to be sure of no rust.

Parts are not as expensive as you post... certainly not Ferrari expensive and quite available..

Replacement manifolds that were unobtainable are now being reproduced by Lotus for the Lotus faithful.

907 is a fabulous engine although the sound is more noisy/harsh than musical at some revs (as compared to the music of a Ferrari)

I also disagree re turbo only...the non turbo car is my car of choice (either S1 s2 or S3)...you don't need the turbo headaches nor the turbo speed to enjoy one of the handling marvels that Lotus dished out in the Esprit...far superior to Ferrari handling...its a fact!

Try one (not a beat one but a good one with great suspension condition) and you will have to own one.

Beev

 

Hi Tom,

Check your PM box.

- Tony

 

I'll put this out here for those interested to know:


I have a lot of experience with S1/S2 Esprits (I mean, really, a lot), and a decent amount with Giugiaro and early Stevens turbos, too. Here are a few thoughts/comments:

For what it's worth, the days of cheap S1s are probably numbered. Interest in them in the States lags behind the rest of the world, but the imbalance won't be around forever; a lot of people in the States still buy and sell them cheaply, but in Europe, Japan, and South America they are priced more like 308s -- and are likewise more appreciated. As a result, we have seen an outflow of decent to good original S1s from the States to other LHD countries. The good ones are going overseas, and the people here who are looking for a cheap exotic are getting the ratty ones with amateur repairs and Maaco paint jobs.

Running an S1/S2, however, is MUCH cheaper than a 308. It's not even close. I've owned two 308s and six Esprit S1s. A well-sorted S1/S2 will need more frequent attention than an equally well-sorted 308, but cost less than half as much when you add up the receipts.

The same can be said with the Esprit/907, especially because there are far fewer specialists who know these cars than there are for Ferraris! There are a few intricacies and precautions when working on an S1/S2 and/or 907 that lend themselves to disaster when you take them to a regular mechanic, high volume exotic shop, or even many people who have never serviced them before. You HAVE to read the manual, FOLLOW THE TORQUE SPECS, and follow all the procedures as described in the manual. If you are a thinking person, read the manual, and are conscientious about what you are doing, it all goes quite well and you have a great engine/car.

A couple of specifics: There are some nuts and bolts on the S1/S2 that if you wrench down hard like a monkey, you will cause damage and headache. For example, cam covers need to be tightened sequentially to 3-4 ft-lbs, and must be surgically clean to not leak when done; also, improperly sequenced or torqued head bolts will cause coolant to leak out the side; cranking down on the wheel lug nuts can damage the hubs (they should only be 64 ft-lbs).

There is also a general lack of precision in how some of the parts go together, that requires a bit of finesse -- and again, thinking. For example, the exhaust components need to be fettled around so that everything fits without leaks and the tailpipe tips don't crack the rear valance under acceleration; they don't just fall into place and fit perfectly like on a German car.

Finally, the bodies have some areas that are thicker and some that are thinner, and like on a racing shell (rowing), there are areas where it's safe to lean or apply pressure, and others that will crack. For example, you never want to push an S1/S2 (especially S1) by the back of the body; you are liable to either crack the rear fascia or crack the area just forward of the curved lip at the top behind the tailgate. Instead, the safest way to push/pull an S1/S2 is to hook your hand into the wheelwell where the black moulding is --- this is the seam, and the strongest part of the body -- and just pull the car in the direction you want to go. S1/S2s are very light (almost 900 lbs lighter than most 308s), and can be pulled along over many surfaces this way (including grass) with ease. Likewise, raising an S1/S2 off of the ground requires wooden boards so as to not dent the frame with the lift or jack.

These are some of the intricacies of an S1/S2. They are easy and logical to learn and make a habit/standard practice. This kind of treatment over all of the car is what eventually leads to one S1/S2 being a tight, crisp reliable driver vs. another one being a leaky and creaky mess.

Some general 907 expectations:

A properly maintained 907 should do over 100k miles without needing a rebuild. Expect to check the valve clearances every 10k miles, and if you're running the correct oil, expect to have to do a valve adjustment every 20k miles. This coincides nicely with the timing belt interval of 24k miles.

Change the timing belt every 24k miles or five years. Make sure you replace the tensioner bearing and pivot bushings at the same time. There will be 2 or 3 V-belts to do with the timing belt. Total cost for all belts, gaskets, shims, sealant, bearings, etc. will be a couple hundred dollars at most. If you do the water pump (check it every T-belt change, but definitely replace or rebuild it every other timing belt as a matter of course), a new one, when available, is anywhere from $350 to $800; typical vendor price will be $350-$500, with $800 being ridiculous, like some of the Ferrari parts vendors. A rebuild kit for a 907/910 water pump is under $100 and works just as well (may even be preferable).

Definitely go with a Dellorto conversion over Weber; the Webers have an "incurable" flat spot with the 907 (and since I'm typing this, somebody will probably come on here and disagree; that's fine). The Dellortos are more sophisticated carburetors and allow for more adjustment, anyway. Not to mention that DHLA 45E are factory spec in the rest of the world on these cars. An overhaul kit to do both carbs, replace all 8 O-rings and thackery washers should run about $120. Do it every 5-8 years. Expect to pay $1200-$1800 for a Dellorto conversion when all is said and done, including carbs, manifold, airbox, gaskets/o-rings/washers/rebuild kits, throttle cable and linkage. (This, like everything else, is the cost for parts only.) Likewise, expect to pay $1k-$2k higher for a car with Dellortos.

How unobtainable and pricey are replacement parts? They are all cheaper than 308 parts, with a few exceptions (such as a new water pump). Regarding internal engine parts, there are a few things in short supply, such as original bearings for a crank that has been ground .020" They are maybe $25-$35 per shell (as opposed to $5-$10 per shell for standard size) last I checked, but a bunch of Jensen-Healey guys found a substitute. Gaskets for the 907 are not insultingly priced like Ferrari gaskets; they are priced more like what you would find for a Porsche 944. Example: the correct cam cover gasket is about $8-$10.

There is no shortage of body/exterior and interior trim parts. Many are still a continuation of the original part (like the waistline trim and capping rail trim), some have been reintroduced from the original molds an dies (like the windshield trim), and some are accurately reproduced (like tail light surrounds, rear valances, etc). Overall, the parts support is great, and Lotus (the factory) take pride in these cars and still enthusiastically support them. If a part is no longer available, the factory has been known remake them for a price, or if a group of people get a group buy together. The 910/turbo exhaust manifolds are a great example of this, as are the re-engineered suspensions they are offering. Lotus' treatment of their enthusiastic owners is a true delight in comparison to the arrogance Ferrari shows its customers (but I digress) . . .

For the relatively small number of parts that are not available, there are enough parts cars sitting round to exceed demand.


Regarding cross-referenced parts, yes there are plenty. For engine, suspension, electrical, brakes, etc. The Golden Gate Lotus Club has an old list on their website; Esprit Fact File has some (although I'm not sure how much for the early cars); Lotus Esprit World I think has a section; and The Lotus Forums .com (which by the way is a truly awesome community) has a sticky thread in the Giugiaro section. A few examples: Timing belt is Conti-tech #104 Nissan Maxima; S2 headlamp motor is Lucas for Triumph TR7; rocker switches are Lucas parts bin; door handles are Morris/Range Rover; Brake pads are Lancia Gamma; lots and lots more.

The electricals are typical 1970s British crap. On top of that, in the S1, Lotus really didn't have enough fuse and relay protection for several circuits (headlamps, fans, blower motor, power windows); Many (maybe most) have been upgraded with relays and fuses, and the only electrical issues one should expect on a well-sorted car are the limitations of Lucas switches and motors.

If you start reading buyer's guides, you will read warnings to check the chassis for rot. The reality is (and I've seen/inspected around 40 S1/S2 Esprits up close, plus photographs and casual viewings of many more) that frame rot is rare on North American S1s. The issues with frame rot tend to be mostly (maybe entirely) in the UK. This is due, I believe, to the overall differences in climate (wetter roads in the UK as well as damper garages, more condensation), and differences in use/treatment of the cars (definitely driven more miles and used more over there, vs. sitting around not running or pampered in garages here in the States). I've only seen three S1/S2 Esprits with enough rust on their frames to worry me; one sat through Hurricane Andrew an did not move after that (its ashtrays were rusted out from salt water sitting in them), and the other two lived on the South Florida coast, very close to the ocean (one of them right on the beach).

The tops of the frames have a foam layer that is accused of absorbing moisture and causing rot; again, this happened in the UK (and not that frequently), but US cars were mostly (or entirely) spared of that (again, climate/lack of use most likely). One key place to look for rust on an S1/S2 frame is in the engine bay on the diagonal tube that goes down under/past the exhaust manifold. The heat from the manifold burned the paint off of there early on, leaving the metal bare, so any moisture from sitting had the chance to rot that area first. I have yet to see one rotted there in the U.S. (although northeastern cars are usually pitted there); in the U.K., this seems to be a place where owners/restorers have found rot (and again, it's not really common, but needs to be checked for).

The only real concern for rust on these cars in the U.S. is actually in the fuel tanks! And, of course, that comes from the cars sitting not running or not being used. If an S1/S2 has been sitting neglected for more than a few years in a climate other than California-Arizona, there is a fairly good chance the fuel tanks are rusty on the inside from condensation. If it has been sitting 10 years in a humid or northern climate, you can pretty much count on it. There is also a foam pad sitting on top of one of the fuel tanks, under the plywood decking, that can hold moisture and cause the tank to rot; this is usually only found on the most neglected, poorest condition cars that were left sitting outside for years.

As noted before, almost everything is going to be significantly less expensive than the 308. (Many of the parts are simpler and of cheaper materials, though.) Suspension parts will be priced like Porsche parts or a bit higher, but not extravagant when you consider production numbers. Regarding the cosmetic condition of the car, although people don't look at them with the same critical, attacking eye that they look at old Ferraris, the values of S1/S2 Esprits definitely reflect the cosmetics; the most original cars and those restored to original appearance bring the most money by far (from 2x to 4x the price of "typical" examples).


Because it deserves mention, let me also note some standard weaknesses and upgrades with S1/S2 Esprits. Like some other hand-built exotic cars from the period, Lotus were struggling financially at the time, and it reflected in the quality of their cars. The S1s, in particular were underdeveloped (S2s cured several minor S1 issues, but substantial changes didn't occur until the S3). All S1/S2 Esprits eat rear wheel bearings. Their rear suspension is taken from a racing practice/design, where the rotating half shaft also serves as the upper link of the suspension; as a result, the wheel bearing receives greater cornering forces. They last at most 30k miles (regular driving); as low as under 10k on a car that is autocrossed or wrung out frequently. There is a "cure" for this offered by a vendor that adds a separate upper link, but they are a false economy; the amount of work it takes and the price are far greater than the cost and work involved in changing the wheel bearing a couple of times (not to mention they rob the car of one of its coolest, quintessentially S1-S2, race-car-like features )

The setup of the rear suspension/engine/transaxle also puts extra stress on the engine and transaxle mounts (the engine/transaxle are a stressed member, with the rear lower links essentially bolted to the transaxle via a piece of U-channel). This setup eats motor mounts (especially when driven hard); there are several upgrades to do, with installing a heat shield by the exhaust side mount at a minimum, to a stabilizer bar, to an upgraded motor mount kit.

The oil cooler can be insufficient in hot climates; a larger oil cooler is an ideal upgrade.

S1/S2 Esprits originally had points/condenser ignition; most have been fitted with a Lumenition ignition kit, which was standard issue on S3s.

S1s cooling systems were sufficient to keep it cool in a traffic jam in Dallas in July, but if there was anything not functioning right in the cooling system, they could overheat. Lotus tried a couple of different things, and ultimately later S2s had larger radiators. I never had overheating issues with any S1, but note that the potential is there on a neglected car (S1 or S2).

In general, electrical systems were lacking circuit protection; later S2s added some fuses and relays that earlier cars lacked, and later S1s had a couple of small changes that the earliest examples lacked. In short, wiring upgrades need to be made to the cooling fans and headlamps, and it might not be a bad idea to protect the window switches, blower motors, and rear defoggers with fuses while you're at it.



Finally, as I've owned six S1s and two 308s, let me offer a quick comparison/opinion between the two:

What I like more about the 308:

- The build quality -- which is nearly impeccable for a hand-built, large volume car of that era, really
- The power/acceleration -- It's a Ferrari V8 -- need I say more?
- The smoothness -- going back to the engine; it's silky smooth and refined compared to the Lotus
- The durability -- a 308 is a pretty tough car
- The overall feeling of grandeur from all of the fine details and metal bits throughout the car

What I like more about the Esprit S1:

- The handling. It's sublime. The 308 is a sled in comparison. The difference is like comparing a Euro QV in power to a Zenith-Stromberg carbureted S1 with all emissions controls in place.
- The brakes. Remember that the 308 weighs 900 lbs or so more? The S1 has the same size brakes as the 308. See where this is going?
- The experience of the interior -- it has more of a "sense of occasion" than the 308's. It is also more "complete" (no awkward afterthoughts like the 308 console and footwell), and the lines of the interior complement the exterior style better than on any car I know.
- The operating costs -- Esprit S1 gets 50%-90% better fuel economy, an of course it costs less to keep on the road.
- The sound of the engine. Yes, I like the sound of a Dellorto-carbureted 907 with stock Lotus exhaust more than the sound of the 308. The 907 revs quickly and sounds cool most of the time; the F106 sounds cool at idle and glorious at wide open throttle, but can be a little bland to a little annoying sometimes, too.
- Driving a stock S1/S2 is far less fatiguing than driving a 308. It's far less work to drive around town, and more peaceful on a long trip (although still noisy).

Some Trade-offs between the two cars:

- With the Lotus, you give up durability for the clever simplicity of Chapman's engineering; With the Ferrari you gain durability at the cost of complication and a ridiculous number of parts.
- The S1 is more likely to have mechanical issues, but the odds are very good that you will be able to fix it at the side of the road with a screwdriver or piece of wire; The 308 is less likely to have issues, but when it does you're probably going to have to flatbed it home, and will probably be out more than $1000.
- The S1 is rumbly and transmits vibration into the cabin; Under wide-open throttle at certain RPMs, it transmits a loud booming noise into the car. vs. The 308 needs higher rpms to drive on the freeway, and traveling at freeway speeds transmits a constant loud, booming resonance into the cabin. (The S1/S2 is overall more pleasant.)
- Styling is really subjective, and almost apples and oranges. The S1 is pure and clean in its design -- I cal it "the golden rectangle of car designs"; the 308 is complex and curvy in its design, like a beautiful woman. Both are beautiful in their own right, and I think they are the two most beautiful cars made.
- In the Lotus, you have to answer more questions about what it is, and tell people it's not a "Lambadini" [sic] or Pantera, and that Lotus makes Lotus; in the Ferrari, you get Magnum comments, and total strangers ask you how much money you make and what you paid for it.


In the end, I prefer the Esprit S1 over the Ferrari 308. Overall, it's more fun to drive, easier to live with, and the overall experience of the car is both more "exotic" and race car-like. I prefer its looks, too, but understand perfectly those who prefer the 308. The only time I miss the additional power/acceleration of the 308 is on the freeway; in the 308, you can always bust a move and make a quick pass, whereas it can be hit-or-miss at some speeds with the 907. The vibration and lack of refinement of the S1 rarely gets annoying -- in fact it often adds to the excitement -- whereas any benefit of smoothness with the 308 is lost to the booming noise on the interstate, and the work and concentration it requires to drive around town. In things like handling, braking, shifting, gear ratios, clutch, controls, comfort, luggage space, etc., the Lotus wins, and for me these things all add up to more than the 308's superior power, build quality, and durability.


But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the 308! Every time I compare these two cars, I never quite get used to just how different two cars with such similar proportions, layouts, and supposedly intended purposes can be; they have very different personalities, a different set of strengths, and offer very different overall experiences. But variety makes life fun, and who says you can't have both?

 

the BEST post I have ever read on F Chat!

I have printed this off and intend to frame it.

Thank you so much


Beev

 

Tony K.
That was a great. Thanks for your time in writing that.

 

I'm glad you all appreciate it. That makes it all worth it.

 

Tony,

I don't mean to highjack the thread, but since you displayed vast instight into early Esprits, I thought you might have the answers I'm looking for my newly aquired '94 S4.

Basically I'v'e got Oil and gearbox fluid quesitons.

Engine Oil: the maunal specs Valvoline Racing oil VR-1 20w-50. I have been using Castrol 20w-50 in my 308 for years and I'm wondering if I'm ok with the Castrol 20-50? In reading about Valvoline VR-1 it has (or has more) zinc which is what is best for the engine....but is one of hte things that may clog cats. I think that the PO used Mobil 1 since it had a Mobil 1 filter on it when I bought it.

Gearbox: Again, the manual specs Castrol TAF-X 75W-90. TAF-X seems very hard to come by in the US. I use Redline 75w-90NS in the 308 and was wondering what you might recomend of the Esprit?

Again, sorry to slightly highjack the thread, but most of the Lotus specific forums really don't give much feedback on the tech side of things.

Thanks.

 

what he said.

i had an 89 SE turbo, with some tasteful mods. the car was crap, and i have had 5 308s, and 6 911s. the esprit was fun when you were strangling it, the rush was great, but a 911 turbo would spit it out, and be cheaper and easier to run, in my opinion. also, for me, the esprit smelled, felt, and sounded cheap as far as the body, the build, and all the creaks and groans.

i dislike open top cars, yet i ended up with a 911 slopenose cab, and a 911 targa, both are exponentially better cars than my 89 Esprit was, and 89's are supposed to be " a good" year for the Esprit, next to the later S4S.

to the OP : you may want to take a S1 on a GOOD 30-45 minute drive, as you be using it , before buying one.

 

Two thumbs way, way up for Tony - helluva post.

 

Man, I have no interest in the thread, but that is one awesome post Tony! You just made the decision and process a lot easier for someone if not many! You're a good man

Chris

 

Speaking of eyes - how are yours doing now?

 

they healed, finally. i was "told" during the sales pitch PRK heals well enough to function, work and drive in 5 days. took me 14 days or so to "see" with my left eye, right eye healed in about a week. my vision is very good now, i am almost to the 2 month mark.

next time i will go somewhere else and get a second opinion first, i still think we should have done Lasik in the eye that had RK done in 1997. ( the left)

 

From someone who has lusted after an Esprit for many years, was a member of the original esprit mailing list and spent an hour just today looking at Esprits on various sites - thank you! That was a truly awesome post.

 

Just bought a S2. A long project ahead. Then again, with an exception of a Maserati Boomerang, I cannot think of a car that is more up my alley, than this one...

-J

 

Photos please. I had one for a while, great fun. So much simplier than the Turbo I have now.

Cheers Jim

 

Bought an S2 today..I will not get it for a few weeks (after the snow is gone from here)


I am so excited!... i have missed having a Lotus after selling my beloved Europa Special to a guy with far more money to spend that I could refuse .


beev
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Nice, congrats and enjoy it!

 

+1

 

Sharp car. Those early Esprits are really striking.