DIno 2400 coupe

Will send you a private message to discuss

 

Daniel- Send him some photos of Norwegian girls and that should seal the deal. I lived in Oslo for three years and last visited in 1989. Every girl looked like Miss Norway. Two types of spectacular scenery.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

for the rear axle you heve to use special oil fort limited slip diffs, not the same as for the gearbox.
I use Millers Oils with great satisfaction also on the track.
You can use synth. oil in the engine but only after you have done a rebuild. For both gearbox and axle it is no problem to switch.

 

It's great to hear from you, Daniel.
Here's an observation. When I was researching gear oils, I found that the majority of modern lube is of the GL5 spec. That will work fine in your differential. However, since your Dino 2400's ZF S5-18/3 gearbox has brass synchro rings (ref: http://www.bearingkits.co.uk/product_info.php/products_id/173), the chemistry of the GL5 may attack those components, causing an etching and/or pitting of the surfaces. Not good. Since the gearbox does not need extreme pressure lube, consider going with the GL4 type. Having said that, I am just an owner/enthusiast/backyard mechanic. Brian Crall, aka Rifledriver, is a well known, knowledgeable and highly respected Ferrari maintainer. Here is an excerpt from a thread on this very topic of gear lube:

"Originally Posted by Rifledriver
My shop is right down the road from Redline and we use their products in the race cars. I have had many long conversations with them about their products and their recomendations.
Ferrari specs GL5 gear oils for the transmissions. Due to Ferraris specs Redline will not officially suggest anything other than GL5 gear oils.
GL5 basically means an oil that is designed for medium to high offset hypoid differentials. MTL is a GL4 lubricant which means it is designed for medium to low offset hypoid gears. In the 308, 328, 348, 355 transaxles there are NO hypoid gears of any type, hi, low, or medium, offset.
I am not ordinarily an experimenter with others cars except in circumstances where the official way is obviously not working but I have seen MTL used with great success and zero problems in 308 transmissions since the product was introduced many years ago. It was also the oil of choice in the transaxles of the 355 and 348 Challenge race cars with zero problems. Those transmissions were subjected to greater stresses and heat in one weekend than most of our transmissions are in a lifetime. I cannot say that however of the AGIP oil spec'd by Ferrari at the time. One session at the track finished off several transaxles and we were told unofficially by Ferrari to quit using it in cars that would see track service. That garbage did remain the official oil.
I have been using MTL in customer cars that had cronic shifting complaints for several years including one 85 308 in daily service with over 115,000 miles on it and the owner is pleased to this day how his transmission performs.
It's great oil. If you have a shifting problem use it.
I would not use it in any transaxle in a 275, 330, 365, BB, BBi, TR, 288, F40, 550, 456, 360, 430, 612, or 599. Those are all medium offset hypoid gear differentials and should have GL5oil."
__________________

Fellow F-Chatter, abstamaria, had this to say about that: "I am very new to Dinos - took out the Dino for its first longish drive only this Sunday - but have had a Stratos for 20 years. I'm also not an engineer and am working from memory, so what I say here may be completely off.
I understood that Redline's 75W90NS is a GL5 gear oil, while their MT90 carries a GL4 rating. I understand that GL5 is aggressive on "yellow" metals, like bronze synchronizers, and therefore shouldn't be used where GL4 (which is less aggressive) is specified. That may be why Redline classifies 75W90NS as a gear oil, while it lists MT90 separately as a transmission oil. On that basis, I opted for Redline MT90 in the Stratos and will probaby do the same for the Dino. I am sure I can use education in this area and would welcome any comments, as Redline's own classifications and descriptions show a lot of overlap and are not vey helpful."

For more info, type "GL4" in the 'Search' window at the top of this page and hit 'Enter.' You can read many threads on this very topic. Just remember that your gearbox/transmission does not contain hypoid gears, so does not need the GL5 rating.

Daniel, as a previous owner of a Fiat Dino Coupe (2.0), I can appreciate how much fun your car is to drive. I can only imagine how the refinements/updates/improvements of the 2400 must enhance the experience. Thanks for the great pictures; don't wait so long to post more!
Cheers,
Coop
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Daniel,

Great car and photos, thanks for sharing. Don't lose the short pants and jackets, its all about your vintage style and vibe. Few can pull it off ... but you can and do it very well.

Cheers,

Tom

 

TKO must be a software engineer

 

This is true of the older GL5 formulations that were loaded with active sulfur-phosphorus compounds. There are some GL4/GL5 cross-specced fluids. At minimum if using a GL5 fluid look for the MT1 rating.

http://www.lubrizol.com/DrivelineAdditives/AutomotiveGearOil/GL5.html

 

Thanks for that reference, JCR. However, I must admit I'm a bit confused. You mention to look for the MT1 rating, if using GL-5. Is that the same as API Category MT-1? If so, the referenced web site states:
"•API Category MT-1 designates lubricants intended for non-synchronized manual transmissions used in buses and heavy-duty trucks. Lubricants meeting API MT-1 provide protection against the combination of thermal degradation, component wear, and oil seal deterioration which is not provided by lubricants meeting only the requirements of API GL-4 and API GL-5."
When Lubrizol references non-synchro trans, there would not be yellow metal parts inside. MT-1 would not apply to synchro boxes & would not apply in most automotive applications. Am I missing something?

As for the GL-4/GL-5 controversy, Redline alludes to 'synchro safety' when describing either their MT-90 or MTL (both GL-4 gear oils):
"Safe for brass synchros, as it lacks the reactive sulfurs found in most GL-5 oils that cause damage." That sounds reasonably convincing.

So, I would still maintain that a GL-4 gear oil is proper/safe for Daniel's ZF gearbox.
Your turn,
Coop

 

Hello Daniel,
I don't know if your mechanic still feels that EPX 80W/90 is right for your transmission. If so, I would respectfully disagree. According to Castrol's website http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_australia/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/a/AU_EPX_Gear_Oils.pdf
"Castrol EPX 80W/90 is an extreme pressure hypoid lubricant designed
for the protection of heavily loaded steel gears. It is recommended for
use in differentials, gear boxes, and steering gear of passenger cars,
trucks, farm tractors, earthmoving and excavating machinery requiring
a hypoid or extreme pressure lubricant.
Recommended where these specifications are required:
�� API Service Classification, GL5EPX 80W90 has a service classis a GL-5 gear"

Dovetailing onto my previous post (#36), I don't think EPX 80W/90 is right for your ZF gearbox. Your transmission does not require extreme pressure protection and it does not contain hypoid gears; it does contain brass synchros. I still think you want to use a GL-4 gear oil, like Redline MT-90 or...gasp...StaLube (I'm using that old standard in my 246 GT and it seems to work well. I will probably try Redline for comparo.)

At any rate, change that oil & let us know what you decided on and how it works.
Later,
Coop

 

Hello Coop,

Just to be honest it was me asking my mechanic which oil he's using. And i recieved the answer as mentioned.

My car is being maintained by a very well respected specialist here in the Netherlands ( Kees van Stokkum/Italauto ) At the moment my Dino is there to be prepaired for the Le-Mans Classic which i'm going to visit ( app. 1800KM of driving in the DINO yeeha!)

I will ask him the same question again when i pick up the car.

Maarten

.

 

Hi Maarten,
Yup, there you are, Dino2400. I must have been tired last evening, or in a hurry. Actually, no excuse. 'sorry about that! Now that we've straightened me up, my observation is the same. Just so all are aware of the concerns of some professionals, as well as this 'back-yard' mechanic (me ). Also, I understand that 'GL5 vs. brass' is not as bad with cars that are driven all of the time; the problem is worse when cars are stored for long periods of time (like winter in your part of the world).

This subject is almost as controversial as the topics of no-lead and/or oxygenated fuel, significant reduction of ZDDP in oil, and sodium-filled exhaust valves in 206/246/308 engines! That's one of the great things about this forum...we share knowledge and experiences that help us to maintain our cars and enjoy them to the fullest.

At any rate, we are looking forward to hearing about your plans for the Le Mans Classic.
Coop

 

Hi Coop,

Like they say: "there as just as many "specialists" as classic cars". Just one of the nice things about our hobby. Everybody has a different opinion and/or experience.

Will keep you updated on the Le Mans Classic. I'm looking forward to this event! The drive to Le-Mans , all the great races with the most beautiful cars... Well, July can not come too soon...

Maarten

 

It is good to see other Fiat Dino enthusiasts out there. Here is a pic of my 1967 -- it is being restored currently and will be getting a new paint job soon. The interior is mint and the car feels like a time capsule. It's cool to compare the evolution from the Dino to my 308 GTB -- there definitely is a "soul" there not found in any other cars
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I defy anyone to point me to an angle, a curve, a detail on the Dino Coupe is wrong. Along with a tiny list of postwar cars (AC Ace, Giulietta Spider, DB4, Muira, Dino 246, DB7) it is simply a perfect shape.

Love it in Blue too.

 

It is easy to find something wrong with the shape, it has a TOP !!!

Your pre-war list is missing Singer's (I have 2 1934's so I am biased).
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Hey Mike,
Your Dino's lookin' real good!

Daniel,
Fiat Dino, Ferrari, and Lamborghini!!! What, no Maser? When do you have time to work on the fleet?

Both/All,
Keep those pictures coming.
Coop

 

Great photos, great selection of cars, great scenery - I'd like to join that club!

Mark

 

Hi Daniel,

Too bad I missed it this year, but next year I´m ready in a Maserati.

Her is another picture from last weekend, and a link to some more:
http://forum.lazzaroni.no/viewtopic.php?t=3519&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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Daniel- Here are some photos of my Dino from the 1980/81 timeframe with the 308 GTS that replaced it. At the time we had the Ferrari, the Dino, and the Scirocco and the neighbors thought we were insane. My wife and daughter (in red) are in one of the photos.

I sold the car to a USAF colonel and told him the only way to hurt it was to rev it while it was cold. He let his 18 year old son drive it and the kid red-lined it when it was cold and dropped a valve head. He actually wanted his money back ($5K), but I said no way. There were three Fiat Dinos at Lakenheath, 2.0 liter Spider and Coupe, and my 2.4 liter.

Looks like mine was a darker shade of metallic blue than yours.

Taz
Terry Phillips
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Nice photos of cars in this thread.
Whatever oil you use in the diff, be sure it is marked "for limited slip", otherwise you will be buying a new diff. Also, I do not reccommend synthetic, as it will leak out.
The rear end assembly of the 2.4 cars is the same as the Fiat 130.
Wally
The Other Dino