the lvferraripilot engine rebuild thread | Page 9 | FerrariChat
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the lvferraripilot engine rebuild thread

Discussion in '308/328' started by Ferraripilot, Mar 29, 2010.

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  1. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #201 Ferraripilot, May 19, 2010
    This seems to be one of those things I hear all different numbers for. JE Pistons told me new undecked heads are about 40cc. Here I have seen 40.5, and Wiseco told me 39.5. Machine shop said they took about .012 off which is about 1.4cc. With this cc volume I get around 11:1 cpr.
     
  2. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #202 luckydynes, May 20, 2010
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
    John,

    What piston to bore clearance did Wiseco tell you to run?

    Thanks,

    Sean

    edit: went back thru the thread ... I guess you didn't go with Wiseco but still curious about piston to bore clearance ... I've got a sleeve that's got .003" clearance instead of .0035" ... thinking of just running the one at .003" since I'm ready to assemble.
     
  3. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #203 Ferraripilot, May 20, 2010
    Not running Wisecos or JE, but I do remember Brian from Wiseco advising me not to push .004 with this bore with .003 being optimal. I am at .003 with a couple cylinders closer to .0025.
     
  4. GrayTA

    GrayTA F1 World Champ
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    #204 GrayTA, May 20, 2010
    I havent commented on this in a while, but I am still amazed at the work you have done. I cant wait to see it in person!!


    PDG
     
  5. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

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    #205 Artvonne, May 20, 2010
    Thats strange. Wiseco told me 40.5, same as I measured on mine. Must depend who we talk to.
     
  6. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #206 luckydynes, May 20, 2010
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
    Thanks for the feedback.

    I measured a .001" or more growth in the skirt direction from head tq.

    I had some scuffing on one engine with .003" clearance (Wiseco though ... different forgings grow different amounts) which had me concerned. It was only on the front bank which I think runs hotter.

    cheers
     
  7. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #207 Ferraripilot, May 21, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Been super busy lately and have not had as much time as I would like to finish this project. Our new baby girl, Hannah, was born 5/4 and she combined with my 1 1/2 yr old have been keeping us stupid busy............and tired!

    Anyhoo, Hannah and pic of Hannah meeting big sister, Rachel (Rachel tried to kick her, but that's ok we'll figure this out!).
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  8. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

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    #208 Pizzaman Chris, May 21, 2010
    Congratulations John!
     
  9. gcmerak

    gcmerak Formula 3

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    #209 gcmerak, May 21, 2010
    Congratulations John!

    Ciao,
    George
     
  10. Sledge4.2

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    #210 Sledge4.2, May 21, 2010
    John, congratulations. I have one that's 15, and you can have him for free ;)
     
  11. Easyrider7467

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    #211 Easyrider7467, May 21, 2010
    Congratulations
     
  12. Ferraripilot

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    #212 Ferraripilot, May 21, 2010

    Why does everyone say that about their 15 year olds!
     
  13. ramosel

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    #213 ramosel, May 21, 2010

    Think back....

    Rick
     
  14. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

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    #214 Artvonne, May 21, 2010
    Congrats on the baby.
     
  15. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #215 Kevin Rev'n, May 21, 2010
    Congrats on your addition. So much love is headed your way.
    now I can see why you were working so fast!!!!!
     
  16. Ferraripilot

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    #216 Ferraripilot, May 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    16" repro wheels/tires arrived. They look pretty good. Very pleased with the quality. The rears weigh in at 48lbs each and the fronts are 42lbs each. Ouch! 40lb weight gain compared to the 14" Campys at 33lbs each. Not a big deal considering all the emissions equipment I removed weighs in at a stout 30lbs. Well worth it.
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  17. hyenahf

    hyenahf F1 Rookie

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    #217 hyenahf, May 22, 2010
    big congrats on the new addition to the family...

    all the best
     
  18. 4right

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    #218 4right, May 22, 2010

    Just wait, you will find out.

    Congrats on the new addition!
     
  19. Ferraripilot

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    #219 Ferraripilot, May 27, 2010
    Was messing around with valves and seat pressures etc last night. Almost done there.

    Once the engine is bolted together, I am going to run leakdown on each of the cylinders so I know where it is prior to break in. This way I will have a good idea if the rings are seated correctly once broken in. I figure I will run the engine 15-20 mins at a couple thousand rpm, then drive engine lightly while allowing the engine to decelerate in gear allowing the rings to push against the walls. After a couple sessions like this I will leakdown again and see where things sit.

    I read all sort of articles about breaking in an engine, but rarely do I see an article that actually suggests some sort of objectice checking of the rings to check and see if they are actually seated (duh!). This seems like a stupidly obvious way to know for sure if they are seated rather then wondering for 400 miles if they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. One is shooting in the dark without checking IMO.
     
  20. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #220 mk e, May 27, 2010
    Yup. It will take at least 500 miles to get the rings fully seated. Personally I would keep it BELOW 2000 rpm for the 45-60 min, 3000 the next 45-60 min, ect and use a load and recover cycle with ever decreasing recovery time at each rpm point and also ramp up the allowed load as the rpm is ramped up so you'vve never been to WOT until you've gotten to the 7000 point. Check the leack-down at 500 miles and you should be under 1% leak....by 2000 miles you should be under 0.5 leak.

    Or you could just hammer it for 20 minutes and call it broken in like you can find various places on the Web ;)
     
  21. Newman

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    #221 Newman, May 28, 2010
    I built an SBC for my nephews stockcar. We had no time to break it in because we were pressed for time before raceday so break-in was set timing, check fluids and put it on the track where it saw 7200RPM at the end of the straight every lap. Never broke and we freshened it up at the end of the season, I found nothing unusual. We still laugh about that break-in method.
     
  22. Ferraripilot

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    #222 Ferraripilot, May 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    My break-in concern sits with the fact that I am using a steel ring with chrome facing as a top ring. What I know about chrome is that they take a stupid amount of time to break in at times, but they are great for carbureted applications (used to run them on dirt track late model engines with great success). I have never used NPR rings before, but Brian at Wiseco swears by them.

    Brian stated these chrome faced rings seat quickly, are about 5 times smoother than other chrome rings, and leak down better than any ring pack they have used prior. The outer chrome facing is a little dull and a bit soft to allow for quicker seating. When broken in with dino oil, they seat super quick. I am considering running a non-detergent oil for the first few miles. That's a bit old school though. We shall see.
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  23. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

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    #223 Artvonne, May 28, 2010
    At the end of the day it probably matters little how you do it unless you baby it. That could in fact make the rings never seat.
     
  24. mk e

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    #224 mk e, May 28, 2010
    Did you check the leak-down or measure the cam or bearing wear? Normally you get a lot more wear breaking in like that and never get the rings to fully seat giving a leak-down in the 1-2% instead of 0-.5%. at least that's what I've seem. I've also seen spun bearings and destroyed cams if things weren't just right going into a hard breakin....there is just no room for error when you run it hard out of the box.
     
  25. Ferraripilot

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    #225 Ferraripilot, Jun 3, 2010
    Some info here for anyone who cares!

    Stock piston weight: 331 grams

    new piston weight: 300 grams

    This weight savings of approx 250 grams across the engine is worth a few bhp on its own merit. Losing weight on a quick and heavy rotating mass is always a great way to pick up bhp. I forget the formula, but one is out there which gives a rough figure for bhp gained per gram of rotational mass subtracted.
     
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