Wet sump to dry sump timing cover conversion

Might be a bit too much bling ... probably should black anodize the adapter eh?

cheers
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what's the status of this project Sean?

Edt: black would be better but i'll settle for the bling

 

yeah I think I agree ... I've had a muscle car buddy over that wants to polish everything .

Here's the pickup tube (tubes ) setup.

You've got some goodies in your "track junkie" thread I think I'll need .

cheers
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looks great! more?

 

Wow Sean,

Can I do that to my motor,, I have the Boss.

Edwardo
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hee hee .. I'm not using that boss ... you can use it if you want though ... I'm going out the old wet sump dipstick hole .

the boss you really want (it's not on very early generation blocks from what I've seen and neither is the discharge boss) is the one that mounts the pump next to #1 main cap ... that one makes life easier ... you probably have that since you have the discharge boss ... there's also extra meat on #1 main cap for one of the mounts.

You and Steven both have some goodies I want so we can chat about bartering.

Anything specific you want more pics of?

cheers

 

Is there a thread detailing what your doing? What kind of pumps? How are you driving them? What exactly did you do to the cover? Is that dirt on that engine? hee hee

 

is it still your intention to market this set together with drysump.com?

btw nice to know you like my work in the lose weight-section. Let me know what you need

 

Sean,
You're working with Armstrong? Great guys, just up the road from me!!

Rick

 

I'd be interested in a "kit" myself.
Or at least as many pics from as many angles as possible and a parts / supplier list.

JD

 

Yes exactly .. I've been working with Gary on this for a while Rick ... he's a great guy.

Last week when we were chatting we kinda decided it made sense for him to just make the pump with a custom front mount so I'm thinking I might as well spec out that with the rear mount and have him do the whole package with respect to the pump ... maybe the pickup tubes also ... let me know what you guys think.

Now the timing cover/chain drive/guides/inlet (I pretty much duplicated the factory thinking with a "semi custom pump" Artv) ... there's a few parts but the hard part is modifying the timing cover. I luv the engineering/problem solving on projects like this but don't really like production work ... how about I sell drawings that details the mod's? .. the pockets in the timing cover for the chain to clear ... the location of the inlet boss ... the location of the chain guides ... what's going on when you cut away the wet sump mount boss ... I was thinking like $100 for a drawing?

edit: I'll post a pic of the mounts I made which he can incorporate into the pump for production.

cheers all,

Sean

 

i'm in

but i do think all the hardware should be included in the kit. leaving us with some machining only.

love your efforts!

 

+1

JD

 

right on ... I'll keep you guys posted on everything ... I'll make up a BOM when I get a chance. Is anyone "in a hurry"? ... I've got lots to do right now and if someone is thinking in a few weeks it would make sense for me to get ARE the details on the mounts right away so he can do his thing.

Here's a pic of the proto pump with the brackets ... the production pump will have the brackets all built into it.

How about welding the adapter into the timing cover? ... you guys okay with handling that?

cheers
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I do have a tig welder, but zip experience with aluminum. I've only done a couple projects with stainless a few years back so my welding is waaaaayy rusty.

JD

 

worst case we side track Mke ... only take him a few minutes.

 

i can have the tig welding done over here at one or two of my contractors, no problem.

No real hurry either, it would make a nice (next)winterproject

 

Sean,
I tried to send you a PM, but your mailbox is full.

Please put me on the list for the dry sump prints / info when you have it all ready.
This is a very nice mod. I was going to use an external pump, but this is far better.
Just let me know when to send you some money, and how much. I personally think that $100 is too cheap. You have spent a fair bit of time engineering this. Supply a full parts list and prints and charge more money.
Thanks,
Reed H

 

Fchat sends an email when PM fills up ... just cleaned it out.

Thanks Reed I'll keep you in the loop. Yeah $100 is cheap but I'm hoping some day the Ferrari community might utilize my engineering skills for something that's actually difficult . Heck I even considered selling the whole design (cheap) to one of the Ferrari guru's out there but they had a "conflict" giving me public acknowledgment that I came up with the solution ... well now the world knows (well the world that matters ).

cheers

 

Status????


JD

 

Here's another pic.

I chatted a bit with the pump manufacturer about distributing a drawing so he could start selling the pumps and he suggested casting up a new timing cover and machining it since I have it all documented.

That's probably going to take a few months (or more) but I think it will be cheaper and easier for anyone that wants to do this.

If someone is "in a hurry" let me know and I can give you some guidance as to what needs to be done to the factory wet sump timing cover. Like I've said before it's quite a bit of work and without some kind of NC mill it'll be a real nightmare.
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Looking better and better. I'd think that a new casting would be a fairly ex$pen$ive route to take unless the valoume of sales can keep the piece price down.

I've got accsess to a couple of machine shops I can farm things out to make mods to a standard cover. The drawing would give a clue of the hours involved to see if that would be the cost / time effective way to go.

I'm getting a bit anxious to start accumulating the bits and pieces for the conversion, your "teaser" pics are like porn.... good porn.


Jeff Davison

 

I'm not in a hurry, but I would still like to see drawings (or whatever) for the mods to the original cover.
I have machinists and welders that owe me work, so I'm not worried about that part. I just need to see the specs to get an idea of the scope.

I think if the pump company casts a new cover, the price of the "kit" would become so high that only a few people would ever spend the money. And most Ferrari guys would want the OEM dry sump parts if they were spending big dollars.
I think you have most of the guys interested in dry sump, but not originality, already pestering you for the info. Not very many of us.

 

Just realized something and went to check......

I want to do this for a QV. The covers are different from an 8V vs a QV.



JD

 

I agreed with all of this but apparently there are several guys in other parts of the world that are interested in doing this conversion that don't hang out here and the guy making the pumps happens to have a 308 that he wants to convert so we have a lot of extra "passion" behind all of this.

Also, I think the pump guy wants to avoid selling pumps to people that may not be able to complete the timing cover mod.

Here's a few things to think about if you want to have a go:

1. Machining the inlet into the pressure section is probably the hardest setup. Preferrably a compound angle works but you can do a single angle and then compound the adapter to get it far enough away from the front of the timing cover for a fitting. I have a Prototrak which for jobs like this is priceless ... manual z axis but will circular interpolate. I think I had something like an 8" endmill in there to get to it. Also what would help is to put some weld on the front of the timing cover before machining it away so one might even be able to tap the hole with a fine thread ... the casting "falls away" in several places.

2. The rear machining isn't too difficult but an NC again makes life easier. One could possilby pull if off with a rotary table on a manual mill though. Essentially a relief needs to be machined away for the chain and sprocket that goes in front of the crank gear.

3. Chain guides ... I duplicated the factory chain guides and locations. I didn't weld on the back of my cover but if you guys are going to do that you can weld all the necessary material where it needs to go and machine the required threads and dowel pin locations after OP 2 above ... OP 2 you're going to be machining away the stock wet sump pickup tube location ... I basically made a block off plate for this instead of welding it up ... this was a lot more work than welding and there are only a couple places where there is material left in the cover for small threads. I was just a little worried about the timing cover moving, especially the pump cavity since welding has to be done right next to that if you don't do the block off plate.

JD what is specifically different on the 4v covers vs. the 2v?

cheers