Is Lambo on the way out..?

I really dont think all the Gallardo / R8 R10 comparisons are really fair when the Audi is clearly a missile aimed directly at the 911 TT / GT3 / GT2. R8 sales might cannibalize some used G sales I even looked at a few but at the end of the day it was just such a snoozer. Now that VW looks like it will own Porsche (it is still in litigation over Piechs family interest in Porsche) will everyone say why make the 911TT and the R8 they are undercutting themselves. Cars at this level are emotional enough of a decision that one parent company can own and operate multiples as long as they maintain the brand integrity properly. I'm sure there will be a slight de-Audifying of the Gallardos replacement when it comes. I agree the real issue here is can the dealers survive? Maybe VAG will wrap a new Le Mans car in Lamborghini livery and win 4 in a row to up the brands prestige like they did a few years back with Bentley. Maybe they will go after Ferrari in F1. Compared to Ferraris parent Fiat VAG is just ridiculous wich is what all this comes down to. Ferraris technology is impressive and their ability to sell you a name and make you think your Schuey with some toggle switches and $25k stripes on your 430 Scud is a very clever approach. But at the end of the day you bought a road car NOT an F1 car and you are not a 7 time F1 champion but it is fun to pretend. I think VAG has more than enough money to keep the brand alive lets just hope they help the dealer network survive and sort out its issues.

 

He says all of that about boring & excitement. Obviously Lamborghini's aren't too exciting. They are 48 million in the hole & only a few people are buying their cars. While Porsche has the automotive world's perfect balance sheet & Ferrari had a 4% increase in sales during this so called "world wide recession". The only hiccup at Ferrari is the cancelled production of Maserati engines.

And you make a great point. The Enzo makes the Murcielago look pretty tame. As did the F50 to the diablo and the F40 the Countach.

 

Got to expand the model range, thats all their is to it.

Many people I know and talk to just aren't going to pay 200 & some change for an Audi engine wrapped in a Lambo chasis. The heart of any car is its engine & transmission. Neither is made in Italy when it comes to the Gallardo. The Gallardo's engine block & transmission are both outsourced & not made by Lamborghini. Thats a huge mental block for many true car people out there.

 

Dear Lamborghinisti,

So....it took all of Ferrari's supercars to trounce the regular production Diablo and Countach....

....Ok...fair statement....

I'll still keep my VT Roadster over an F 40....yes, I've had them side by side, besides the outlandish wing (which I love ) on the F 40, the Diablo still has sexier lines.

But hey, if you prefer an F 40....just buy one....


Shamile

Freeze....Miami Vice!

 

Nice try.

You forgot to compare apples to apples.



The Enzo has no Lamborghini competitor - same with the other three Ferrari upmarket limited production supercars.

The Diablo matches up with the 512TR and the 550 Maranello.

The Countach matches up with the Boxer and Testarossa.

The Miura matches up with the 275 GTB and Daytona.

The 350GT matches up with the Lusso and 275 GTB.

The resale market has been generous to the Lamborghini products.

 

You really like to grasp at straws dont you? The engine in the Gallardo and the chassis were both built spefically for the Gallardo and nothing else. You act like it is something similar to the Ford Explorer / Mercury Mountaineer. if anything somebody buying an R8 V10 is getting an Audi chassis wrapped around a Lambo engine. As to your point about comparing cars like the F40 blew away the Countach and the F50 blew away the Diablo thats kind of a bad argument for a Ferrari Fanboy like yourself. You're basically saying that it took Ferrari from 1974 to 1987 to finally outdo the Countach? And from 1990 to 1995 to outdo the Diablo? Sounds like Ferrari is always playing catchup .... at least from your point of view. And until you can provide documentation that all parts in a Ferrari are manufactured by charming little wine drinking men right there in Italy I wouldnt try to complain about where the Lambos engine comes from. Wanna talk about Ferrari engines in Maseratis and the Alfa 8C or does that not sober you up from the Mystique Potion you apparently swallowed. Have your mom wash your Ferrari sheets and jammies whilel your in school today, is there safe parking for your FXX there?

 

I was speaking in terms of over the top looks. Its a forgone conclusion about performance. Someone even said above, Lamborghini doesn't even produce a stock car on the level of the Enzo. And as I said earlier I don't even consider them a serious competitor. Ferrari is making engines for other companies, how can Lamborghini be a serious competitor when they can't even make engines themselves at their own factory? You guys don't even have a wind tunnel. Just stop arguing the point.

Here is proof where Ferrari engines come from. They ALL come from THE FACTORY ON SITE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3Tsm1Mk2xE&feature=related

Please do me 2 favors. 1. Take 10 minutes and 1 second of your life to educated yourself about this topic.

2. Now that you know where Ferrari engines are made tell me EXACTLY where & who makes the Gallardo's engine.

Thanks.

 

I really do think Lamborghini is too small to " go it alone" ....given their 2 car line up.


as i read the above i am thinking of Morgan who is healthy profitable and has a long waiting list

gary
8394

 

Ralph:

You are right on all counts.

But I think the reason you often see Ferrari's Supercars compared with Lamborghini's Supercars is very simply because they are comparing 'The Best of Ferrari' vs 'The Best of Lamborghini'. In such an instance, their comparison is legitimate, and in that case the Ferraris sort of leave the Lambos a bit behind.

 

On topic: Yes, there are way too many models, is this for a good reason because they only have two models, or is it a short attentionspan? Or perhaps when the car breaks, and it will, you'll be motivated to go to the next new thing?

In the case of a private dealership winning Le Mans, I am pretty sure that is an outlier, and those mechanics were not your average greasemonkeys from the UTI program either.

This scenario would never happen:
"Hey Gunther, congrats on being the winning crew chief at Le Mans last weekend, but my 1997 A4 is making a clicking noise when I turn the wheel hard to the left. Take a look at it while I'll help myself to the free coffee in the lounge. Oh, and arrange for a courtesy car to take me home."

There is some interchange between parts, no doubt, but you have to motivate the Lambo owner to want to slum it at an Audi dealership. They may be capable, but I have a vote of no confidence, mostly out of pride/vanity.

A trophy on the wall has nothing to do with the level of service I'll get. It is that mentality that sells Nissans with "race inspired suspensions" to the masses all day long.

 

Joe,


That is true.

However, the market for the special limited production Ferrari supercars, was quite different from the 'production' Lamborghini 12cyl GT cars / supercars. A fair comparison, is to line up both the Lamborghini and Ferrari regular 'production' cars and look at each individual series.

The SE 30 should be compared to the F512M - not the F50. Of course, that is my opinion.

 

Fair comments.

 

You've missed the point and have also changed the specificity of what I said: I specifically said "Winning Le Mans outright on multiple occasions says a lot about that manufacturer's competency and capabilities from top to bottom". Quite different from "a trophy on the wall" as you put it, which might be an award for "shiniest rims at the local cars and coffee". I was referring to perhaps the most difficult-to-win Motorsports event, one which is only claimed by the very best. I pay attention to companies that win Le Mans on multiple occasions as it speaks to the way the organization is run from top to bottom. It also tells me their products are likely to be reliable. That was my point, and that's my belief.

 

That is a bit miopic, unless you are talking strictly about racing and not comparing bespoke race cars to mass-consumer product. The correlation of racing product and that internal organization compared to the consumer product and an entirely different internal organization is simply not comparable ever, unless you are a fanboi, in that case, logic will make no sense to you. While Audi focuses on being very nice, professional appearance and treating the plethora of problems with speed, that does not mean they are good, only the perception is good.

I guess what I am trying to ask is if you consider these two cars related and of the same quality.
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Yet this is the EXACT mentality that fuels the mythos of Ferrari. This thread has deteriorated into so much Ferarri vs Lamborghini because the F car crowd seems to think Lambo exists because it is constantly trying to BE Ferrari. In my opinion it is the Anti Ferrari wich is what makes it more appealing to me. They both make spectacular cars with such an opposing mentality, Ferruccio never wanted to BE an F car clone maker he wanted to build a car that was everything Ferrari wasnt. I dont care who makes what part where (and FXX the Gallardo engines are made at Cosworth in the UK, a division of Audi AG and finally assembly is done @ a plant in Hungary. now you can sleep) it is the final product and the emotion it stirs in the owner that matters. Some of you clearly have passion for certain marques on here but your reasons for thinking they are so superior are ridiculous. A wind tunnel....really I am sure VAG has more than one wind tunnel who cares if it isnt located in Sant Agata.

IRONY

 

True, but in today's economic reality, for the Lamborghini marque to survive, they're going to need to address more than just making aesthetically pleasing or nice-looking cars.
In the 60s with the radical Miura, perhaps they could get by on this alone, but in today's world, things have changed. The charm wears thin quickly without the substance of reliable products that hold their value, backed by great customer service. To survive, they will also have to come out with not only new Supercars, but they will have to diversify the production line (sedan, SUV etc).
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Dear Lamborghinisti,

Ferrari is better...no Lamborghini...Ferrari's are built by cigarette smoking old guys in overalls working on wood bucks......Lamborghini engines are built by the hun....


Hmm....like a couple of kids with comic books in hand....

Superman's stronger....no spiderman....well superman has super strength.....spiderman can't get affected by kriptonite....

Hey.....how come the Romulans are allowed to develop and maintain cloaking technology while the Federation can't...

cause it's the treaty of Aldeberon.....well, can't they get around it? I'm sure the Borg threat would be a good reason?


A G is a cross-dressing Audi.....ahhh....your mom wears army boots !








Shamile

Freeze....Miami Vice !

 

As much as I hate to agree with anyone, I must agree with both Joe and SKNKWRX!


Shamile, please post pics, of more hot gurls !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Wow man, why make this a personal attack? I actually laughed out loud when I read shamilles post. Then saw your reply which was totally unwarranted. Lighten up man, keep your little attacks in the "pretty girls" thread or just leave them out.

 

C'mon, understand a little brevity.....it's all in good fun!

Remember, this is the WWW., where anything goes whether meant in jest or not. Really, you can't take anything seriously that you read here, that would destroy the gaiety of it all.

This is all meant as fun.......some of it serious, most of it not!

 

Lambo has been, for a very long time, about that shocking appearance as a design philosophy and I enjoy it and I think you hit the nail right on the head with their other shortcomings in service and product lines. Their approach has gotten a bit smarmy as of late too.

They roll out Balboni for these drive events like a car salesman, charge 1500 a head, and then by the time you show up, the next car is announced. They have done changes 6 times with the Gallardo in as many years. About the same on their only other offering, the Murci. That is like what Ford does to the Mustang line. Not a vote of confidence to a buyer, maybe to a lease.

That approach makes values drop faster than panties... am I right Shamile?

As for service, there was one occasion when fellow board member Chaserolls and I proclaimed "thank god for Lamborghini roadside assistance" but it was not the same experience I got from BMW, or even Volvo. While having the infrastructure in place to support the few thousand cars they sell here per year is quite inconvenient, the little things you get when you do show up matter, and to be honest, who really goes back to the dealer themselves, you'd usually have someone come get the car. So utilizing the Audi infrastructure, I'll now admit, is a good move for support, but maybe have a dedicated Lamborghini specialist inhouse to pat and stroke those that have the ability to buy the cars.

After all, part of the ownership of an exotic is the implied treatment or envy you get from others. I am not expecting gourmet coffee and a handjob, well not from the dealer anyway, but finding out exactly what that extra service is, well it is up to them to come up with something.
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I think you are having more fun than anyone on this board with your Lambo including me (and I take mine to the store for toilet paper and through gas station car washes for the crazy looks I get) and your mom DOES wear army boots and my dad can beat up your dad!

FREEZE....IMMIGRATION!

 

ROFLMAO!!

 

Dear Lamborghinisti,

Boy....that would make me service my Lamborghini at the dealer....

About values...the Diablo and CT are holding as well or better than any comparable Ferrari of the same era...

I think once VAG changed the game plan, the Murci and G values have dropped due to the overproduction.....not my style but still great cars....better looking than Ferrari's current offerings....IMO

I just think this thread has become silly but I'm enjoying the siliness....

army boots?! ...noooo....she loves St.Johns...

I really do try to have fun everyday.....you really have to make an effort....or life will pass you by.....then you'll say..."where did the time go"?



Shamile

Freeze....Miami Vice !

 

Lamborghini on the way out? WTH have you guys been smoking? Lamborghini is superior to Ferrari in everyway that an exotic should be: radical looks, superior build quality and performance (except maybe steering). Give me a break.