Interesting Ferrari Alternator Story | FerrariChat

Interesting Ferrari Alternator Story

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by twright, May 23, 2010.

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  1. twright

    twright Karting

    May 15, 2005
    225
    Indianapolis USA
    I was told the following story by an Engineer friend of mine who used to work for Delco-Remy:

    He told me that in the mid 1980's, Delco was the alternator supplier for Ferrari. They started to have problems with them because the wires going to the brushes were failing. It was determined that the failure occurred because at high RPM (6000+) the wires got into a resonant mode and failed. Delco had not experienced this with the millions of GM alternators that they had made because GM engines did not normally spend much time at those high RPM's.

    Anyhow, Delco did some redesign and created a new method of holding the brushes in the alternator. But then they found out that the brushes were only good for about 45,000 miles, because they were getting too hot.

    So what was Ferrari's response to Delco? Please sell us both types of alternators! Ferrari's plan (because they knew their customers) was to hand select alternator types for the type of customer you were: If you were a drive-it-at-the-redline kind of guy, you got the second type above. If you were a daily driver kind of guy, you got the first type.

    I don't know what they did if you were a redline daily driver kind.

    Just thought I'd share this with everyone.

    If you want more details, I can go ask the guy some questions. I'm sure he'd be interested in answering.
     
  2. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    #2 2NA, May 23, 2010
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
    You had me right up to the "hand select" part.

    I doubt Ferrari used different alternators for different customers.

    There were some reliability issues with Delco alternators on 348s that prompted a change to Nippondenso later in production.
     
  3. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    I say your friend is giving you the BS.
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    #4 Rifledriver, May 23, 2010
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
    If you really believe that I have a big orange bridge I would like to sell you.



    Those POS Delco alternators cost Ferrari millions in warranty expenses.
     
  5. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    I just took one in to my local rebuilder. It cost $80 to rebuild with parts he had on the shelf. Compared to some cars the 348 is pretty easy to R&R. I'm surprised it was such a problem for Ferrari.
     
  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    They were junk. The bearings are not up to the job and they hammered out the housings. The alt was such a POS even Delco did not rebuild them in their exchange program. Fixing them will be never ending. Ferrari was aware of that at that point so they offered to do the Nippondenso conversion free for about 8 or so years after those cars all went out of warranty. The kit installation labor cost was almost $1000 per car and the kit even at Ferrari cost was a few hundred dollars.
     
  7. twright

    twright Karting

    May 15, 2005
    225
    Indianapolis USA
    I had one thing right: it is an interesting story. (Although I believe the truthfulness has come into question. :) ) When I get to work tomorrow, I'll get some more details.
     
  8. twright

    twright Karting

    May 15, 2005
    225
    Indianapolis USA
    OK, I have some additional info:

    The specific failure instances that was reported by Ferrari to Delco is that one (or more) of the failures were at the Nardo, Italy test track. They were reported on F40's, and maybe other models,during the 1990 time frame. This means that they would have been Model Year 1991-1993 F40's. The Delco model number of the Delco alternator with the problem is: CS-130.

    I see on Ricambi's parts list that there are two alternators listed for F40's. Does anybody know if they were both Delco's?
     
  9. db6

    db6 Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2010
    253
    how would the factory know which type of customer you were?
     
  10. twright

    twright Karting

    May 15, 2005
    225
    Indianapolis USA
    Their weren't very many F40's sold. I don't think it would be too hard to know the customers of a small volume vehicle like that.
     
  11. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    But they had no idea of them in advance.


    Your story is a fantasy.....get over it.
     
  12. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    And a pair of brushes, a pair of bearings and a regulator hardly defines a rebuild any more than a set of rings and gaskets is a rebuild to a motor.


    That is what we refer to as a patch.
     
  13. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
    2,345
    I say we submit this to MYTHBUSTERS!
     
  14. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    It was "rebuilt" but not "remanufactured". It was working fine before but was out incidental to a major service. What more would you fix if it ain't broken?
     
  15. AMA328

    AMA328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 12, 2002
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    ABQ-67me68-OKC :)
    #15 AMA328, May 25, 2010
    Last edited: May 25, 2010
    Anyone have more specifics on which models, which years, which serial number ranges?

    Would be nice to know before my alt done bloweds up...

    In the meantime, I'll just ass-ume that my alt conks out 50 miles before the timing belts disintegrate, at approx. the same time the plug extenders crap out, followed by the 'slow down' lights blinking, etc. Might as well add one more thang to the 'look what happened to my Ferrari' list...
     
  16. 3forty8

    3forty8 F1 Rookie
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    Apr 25, 2006
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    Delco CS 130 alternator on the 348 and Mondial T (and F40?). They are junk; either upgrade to the Nippondenso kit for $5k (lol) or rebuild the Delco with a heavy duty regulator and rectifier for around $80. The rebuilds with HD parts last about 3 or 4 years; rebuild it as part of the major service routine.

    And to the OP, your engineer friend is having a laugh at your expense. The two most common failures on the CS 130 are the diodes on the rectifier frying or the rear bearing getting spun.
     
  17. don_xvi

    don_xvi F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
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    I would suggest the story is based on some nugget of truth, but grew into a corporate legend, just like an urban legend. I work at a large manufacturing firm, and hear these stories going around that I'm dubious of. I wouldn't doubt that the original source heard this story over and over for years, and is just passing along what he heard.

    I tried to come up with a OE build vs service part explanation, but I think Ferrari would be quite happy with a part that would last 45,000 miles and would just have taken that. Regardless, it seems that real world experience tells us that there is no 45,000 mile alternator!
     
  18. Ingpr

    Ingpr F1 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2009
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    I had problems with my alternator. I took it out and fixed it for $75.00. The unit had the voltage regulator and the brushes damage. They guarantee it for life. I installed it back using a frequency meter to adjust the belt at 100 Hz. My unit is Denso.
     
  19. Iain

    Iain F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2005
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    Can you expand on the 100Hz thing please ? What was that for?

    I.
     
  20. Ingpr

    Ingpr F1 Rookie

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    The 100Hz is the tension of the belt measured in frequency. The parameter of that adjustment need to be between 90 / 100 hz.
     
  21. Under PSI

    Under PSI F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2005
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    I am very intrigued by this bridge you speak of. I have been investing heavily in muffler bearings, metric adjustable wrenches and headlight lubricants. I am expecting a big payoff soon and may want to invest in real estate.
     
  22. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
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    I vote for locking this thread as it is a waste of time, bandwith...and the OP's post is full of BS IMO
     
  23. twright

    twright Karting

    May 15, 2005
    225
    Indianapolis USA
    Wow!

    I didn't know people were so passionate about alternators
     
  24. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Pete
    This story is definitely rubbish. Ferrari would design the pulley ratio to give the correct rpm for the alternator. There is no need to over rev an alternator, does not charge any better or anything thus the comment about it revving higher is a load of cr@p.

    A common modification when building a race motor is to change the pulleys so the alternator and water pump maintain their previous rpm's while the engine is revving higher.
    Pete
     
  25. Hexnut72

    Hexnut72 Formula Junior

    Nov 22, 2006
    331
    I bet it is rubbish, but...

    It must be more difficult to build something that will run efficiently from say 2,000 to 7,500rpm than it is to build something that has a 2,000 to 5,000rpm range.
     

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