Slow down cyl 7-12 is on with buzzing sound | FerrariChat

Slow down cyl 7-12 is on with buzzing sound

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Dean B, May 17, 2010.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Dean B

    Dean B Rookie

    May 8, 2009
    45
    Dallas, Texas, USA
    Full Name:
    Dean B
    I have a problem with 87 Testarossa and need help to fix it. When I start the car slow down cyl 7-12 is on with buzzing sound. When the car starts I can feel that sometimes only six cylinders are running and very light gas smell for very short time. In the warm up process after maybe 10 minutes light will start to go off and on and eventually will be off. If I shut down and start the car again (when engine is hot) the light will be off or will be on for less than a half a minute and then will be off with everything works perfectly fine. In process to find issue and fix it following was done (one by one) but nothing really helped
    New Battery (Interstate MT-34R), swap ignition coils, swap modules, bought new modules just to be sure – no difference, swap ECU’s, replaced spark plugs, check fuel pumps – both are good, checked fuses and relays so not sure what else can be done before car end up at dealership.
    There is one other thing that I never had before. Sometimes when I put key and turn to position one speedometer will jump to 100 miles or so and came back to 0.
    Regards,
    Dean B.
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,825
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #2 Steve Magnusson, May 17, 2010
    Last edited: May 17, 2010
    If the warning light stays on continuously after cold start up, it can only be a flaky warning light ECU, because it is physically impossible to instantly heat up the thermocouple to such a high temperature. If this is the case, you should swap warning light ECUs (they are located behind the small cover above the 1-6 bank accumulator inside the RR wheel well), and see if the "trouble" moves to the other warning light (which would confirm a flaky warning light ECU). Also, you should be watching the self-test during start-up carefully -- if that is not working correctly (and no lights at all is a failure), that is another sign that the warning light ECU is untrustworthy.

    However, your report of running on one bank is a serious thing (although, if a bank never starts up -- i.e., the cat on that bank is never heated up to a normal temp, the cat shouldn't overheat, because the being cold, the whole process wouldn't get started?) Have you used a timing light to confirm/deny if you have spark on both banks during the period where you think it is only running on one bank?
     
    blkdiablo33 likes this.
  3. Dean B

    Dean B Rookie

    May 8, 2009
    45
    Dallas, Texas, USA
    Full Name:
    Dean B
    ECU’s were swapped as well and no difference at all. Spark is there on both banks and when car warm up everything is fine, starts fine and all light are on and off as should be but when cold light is on until car warm up.
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,825
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #4 Steve Magnusson, May 17, 2010
    Last edited: May 17, 2010
    Understood (about the swap), but please explain this more fully -- are you saying that: 1) the light stays "on" continuously from initial start-up until the water temp reaches ~150 deg F, or that 2) the light initailly goes off at initial start-up, but then comes "on" in a short time and stays on until the water temp reaches ~150 deg F?
     
  5. Dean B

    Dean B Rookie

    May 8, 2009
    45
    Dallas, Texas, USA
    Full Name:
    Dean B
    Number 1. Maybe this explanation can help little better. The light stays “on” continuously from initial start-up until car warm up. Cold car start fine and run fine for first 10 seconds but then somehow it losses some of the power and yes light 7-12 will stay on all the time. After 10 minutes light will go on and off and when car really warm up light is off. If warm car are shut down and started again no problem. Last night when light was off I drove a car for about 10 miles and light never came again. Car was running strong, sounds perfectly fine and there are not problems at all. So if I start car right now light 7-12 will be continuously on.
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,825
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #6 Steve Magnusson, May 17, 2010
    Last edited: May 17, 2010
    Unfortunately, you've reached the end of something "simple". I do find it strange that the light stays "on" continuously at cold start-up (but it isn't a warning light ECU problem) as everything has some thermal inertia (although an open thermocouple will also cause the warning light to come "on" so maybe a bad connection is not bad when warmer). There is no "intelligent" connection between the overtemp warning light system and the engine management system on a US TR, so your bad running when cold can't be caused by the warning light system; however, there are several things that do have to occur correctly, or be correct, for cold-running to work correctly. IMO, you (or the Mechanic) are to the stage where going thru Diagnosis Sheet No. 6, various KE-Jet system checks, and an exhaust gas analyzer are the next steps -- Good Hunting!
     
  7. Dean B

    Dean B Rookie

    May 8, 2009
    45
    Dallas, Texas, USA
    Full Name:
    Dean B
    Problem is fixed and it was the oxygen sensor. I replaced both of them and there in no “slow down cyl 7-12” anymore. The original oxygen sensor is BOSCH # 0258003009 and can be found at O'Reilly ($62), AutoZone ($65) or Napa ($90) under part number 13957. The engine works so nice again with a beautiful sound. For this money I will replace O2 sensors every 1-2 years just to prevent any bigger problem because of them.
     
  8. Mr.Chairman

    Mr.Chairman F1 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2008
    2,987
    New Jersey
    Full Name:
    Robbie
    Are you sure that both sensors are the same part number.. Why are they priced differently from ferrari with different part numbers..

    R
     
  9. Dean B

    Dean B Rookie

    May 8, 2009
    45
    Dallas, Texas, USA
    Full Name:
    Dean B
    Both old O2 sensors are the same part number (Bosch 0258003009). Also, if you check O2 sensors at allferrariparts.com they are listed as
    125881 - CO2 SENSOR 7 THRU 12 BANK, TESTAROSSA (BOSCH # 0258003009) - $411.25
    121515 - LAMBDA SENSOR MOTRONIC 2.5, 328/TESTAROSSA/MONDIAL (BOSCH # 0258003009 - $236.25
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,825
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #10 Steve Magnusson, May 28, 2010
    Last edited: May 28, 2010
    IIRC (and maybe here I don't ;)), the difference is just in the connector colors and/or wire lengths. The replacement Dean mentioned is fine -- you just need to make sure that the O2 sensor mounted in the 7-12 exhaust stream is connected to the connector that goes to the 7-12 injection ECU (and likewise for the 1-6 bank).
     
  11. lasvegascop

    lasvegascop Karting

    Apr 12, 2009
    222
    Las Vegas, NV
    Full Name:
    "Ski"
    How many miles you got on your TR if I may ask? Just trying to gauge when I should be expecting mine to go? :(

    thnx
     
  12. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,268
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
    Full Name:
    Mel
    #12 Melvok, May 31, 2010
    Last edited: May 31, 2010
    Changed O2 sensors ? .....

    I had the same problems in the 512TR ! Seems to be a common problem around 40.000 miles...
     
  13. Dean B

    Dean B Rookie

    May 8, 2009
    45
    Dallas, Texas, USA
    Full Name:
    Dean B
    #13 Dean B, Jun 1, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2010
    The normal aging process will eventually cause the oxygen sensor to fail. Over time, oxygen sensors become "lazy" and their output signal deteriorate.
    When the air/fuel mixture is rich and there is little O2 in the exhaust, the difference in oxygen levels across the sensing element generates a voltage through the sensor's platinum electrodes: typically 0.8 to 0.9 volts. When the air/fuel mixture is lean and there is more oxygen in the exhaust, the sensor's voltage output drops to 0.1 to 0.3 volts. When the air/fuel mixture is perfectly balanced and combustion is cleanest, the sensor's output voltage is around 0.45 volts.
    The oxygen sensor's voltage signal is monitored by the onboard engine management computer to regulate the fuel mixture. When the computer sees a rich signal (high voltage) from the oxygen sensor, it commands the fuel mixture to go lean. When it receives a lean signal (low voltage) from the oxygen sensor, it commands the fuel mixture to go rich.
    A dead sensor will prevent the onboard computer from making the necessary air/fuel corrections, causing the air/fuel mixture to run rich in the "open loop" mode of operation, resulting in much higher fuel consumption and emissions.
    An additional consequence of any oxygen sensor failure may be damage to the catalytic converter. A rich operating condition causes the converter to run hotter than normal. If the converter gets hot enough, the catalyst substrate inside may actually melt forming a partial or complete blockage. The result can be a drastic drop in highway performance or stalling because of a buildup of backpressure in the exhaust system.
    Oxygen sensor performance can be checked by reading the sensor's output voltage to make sure it corresponds with the air/fuel mixture (low when lean, high when rich). The voltage signal can also be displayed as a wave form on an oscilloscope to make sure the signal is changing back and forth from rich to lean and is responding quickly enough to changes in the air/fuel ratio.
    Keeping the oxygen sensor in good operating condition will also minimize exhaust emissions, reduce the risk of costly damage to the catalytic converter and ensure peak engine performance (no surging or hesitating).
    For these reasons, the oxygen sensor should be considered a "tune-up" replacement item just like spark plugs, especially on older vehicles (those built before the mid-1990s).
     

Share This Page