Surge protectors?

The best thing you can also do make sure everything is grounded properly including your house. The surge protectors are secondary. Most surges come through the telephone and cable/sat. lines.

 

Cheapo ones will continue to provide juice to the outlets after the crappy fuse has been blown.

I use http://www.apc.com/index.cfm

They do not work after their power protection circuits have been blown.

 

They don't! I leaned the hard way.

 

Might also grab a line conditioner if you've got crappy power service.

 

APC makes some good stuff. We use them in our server rooms at work and I use them at home with no problems.

 

No offense, but line conditioners for home use are one of the biggest scams going.

 

Not really. APC's unit works and is inexpensive. It was a must have where I used to live due to the frequent brownouts. Not at all needed where I live now though.

 

My apologies. I was referring to the overpriced junk from monster and a few others. Most APC UPS devices have line conditioners built in and are reasonable.

 

Stand out in the yard with some rebar during a lightning storm...your gear will be fine.

 

He was asking for surge protection. Surges (high voltage) are obviously completely different from brownouts (low voltage). A warning to the OP (Mark) of so many replies based in retail myths. Recommended was one of the more expensive solutions - ie APC. A recommendation not based in simple electrical knowledge. Obviously high voltage and low voltage anomalies are completely different – which also explains the recommendation of APC.

If the protector claims surge protection, then the poster cited numbers from its numeric specs. No number will be provided because protectors adjacent to a computer do not claim to protect from typically destructive surges. That will make some angry because they were scammed by myths from sales brochures. They cannot provide those spec numbers. So some will be angry.

What does lightning seek? Earth ground. Lightning does damage because it obtained earth ground, destructively, via appliances. Protection even 100 years ago has always been about earthing a surge BEFORE it can enter the building. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Always.

All appliances contain significant protection. So that a rare transient does not cause damage, that energy must be absorbed somewhere. Notice how many never discuss energy (in numbers) and where that energy dissipates. The service entrance. Single point earth ground. Either an incoming wire (every wire inside every cable) connects short to earth (hardwired). Or it connects short (ie 'less than 10 feet') to single point ground via a protector.

So, where were those APC specs that claim surge protection? Never provided. APC, Belkin, Monster, etc can claim anything they want in sales brochures. Those brochures are where most get their education. But the informed view numeric specs. Protectors adjacent to appliances have no earth ground. Protectors rated at hundreds of joules must make destructive surges (hundreds of thousands of joules) magically disappear. Obviously, that will never happen.

More responsible companies make effective 'whole house' protectors. Number one factor always required in any effective protector - that short and dedicated wires to connect to earth. Not wall receptacle safety ground that is not earth ground. Those responsible companies include Leviton, Intermatic, General Electric, Siemens, and Square D. A Cutler-Hammer solution sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50.

An effective protector earths direct lightning strikes ... and remains functional. A scam protector "sacrifices itself" - means ineffective protection. Lightning is typically 20,000 amps. So a minimally sized 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. Costs about $1 per protected appliance. Again, what others never provided - many significant numbers. Only those who first learn facts will have learned and will provide numbers. That is typically a minority.

 

I use these in my studio and they DO work.

RMX
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Good unit, but it's not what I was referring to. The unit you posted is designed to keep electrical hum out of audio lines which usually result from poor grounding. I've used them in clubs and radio stations and they work well for that purpose although it would be better to find the ground fault and fix it if possible. As in an earlier post, line conditioners won't help with surges.

 

Sometimes those poles would actually make damage easier. Other times they might do as you hope. A lightning rod (ie those poles) typically has a cone of protection at 60 degrees. IOW about 1 foot out from the pole for every 1.7 feet vertical.

More important are other conditions such as where AC wire enters on the distribution system, geology, and maybe 10 years of neighborhood history. Mountain tops are not most often struck. More often struck are mountain sides. Or due to geology, a creek bed between mountains is more often struck.

But this much we always know. Every wire entering a building must connect to single point earth ground before entering. All must connect to the same earthing electrode(s). That connection must be short (ie 'less than ten feet'). A connection always made either by a simple wire or by a 'whole house' protector. No protector does protection. Either the protector connects to that protection (earth ground). Or that protector is ineffective. It was that simple even 100 years ago. Concepts that are so little known when retail salesmen discuss (sell) high profit ather than effective solutions.

 

I also ran a specific copper line to some 6 ft long rebar that I personally pounded into the ground.

No matter, despite the ground system, I used to have ground loop issues with certain, specific equipment. I have a Roland JP8000 synth that would not stop humming unless I used a 3-2 adapter. I don't use this KB much anymore and it sits in a case in the closet. That thing used to drive me NUTS because the sound leaked into production. Before I used the adapter, I would use an actual gate (the rackmount kind) to shut it up when it wasn't making sound.

RMX

 

i work for a retail computers/electrical store and we sell a lot of surge protectors.

ones to look out for are the ones that also cover undervoltages. most surge protectors have a $x gaurantee so the manufacturer will 'insure' and replace anything damaged by a surge if it does get through.

also.... theres a lot of markup on them to

oh and most companies (computers, tv's etc) wont cover a power surge under the manufacturers or extended warranties

 

I am in the UPS business as a manufacturer and the power protection business.

Most run of the mill surge protection devices ( passive ) use cheap MOV, and I mean real cheap.
First thing you want is high joule rating, 5300 joules is a good start.
Also make sure the cord is very heavy, as a matter of fact. you will probably think it isn't very flexible when you see it. Third look for a reset breaker on the surge device.
The surge block should feel substantial and the breaker should also have the same feel.

Cheap surge system will only take one or two small hits then they become useless.
The more expensive + $ 50, will use a gas tube device which is the best suppression/surge
you can get.

The term power conditioner is over used, and for the most part they don't provide the benefit your are expecting unless you go to a ferroresonant deivce ( this type is the best hands down) don't waste you money on an Schnieder ( APC) power conditioner.

The largest manufacturer of surge devices is Power Tech in China ( Taiwanese company)
They pretty well have 90% of the world wide business as an OEM manufacturer.

The levels of protection are as follows. starting from the lowest to the highest.

1) Surge protection + 5000 joules
2) Line Interactive UPS
3) Double Conversion UPS
4) Double Conversion with isolation transformer.
4) Ferrups UPS.

Good luck.

 

None of those devices claim effective protection. Please. Where are the spec numbers that list protection from each type of surge? Simple. A typically destructive surge will simply blow right through each. How does a 2 cm device stop what kilometers of sky could not?

UPS adjacent to electronics does not provide and does not claim to provide effective protection. Typically contains a power supply that is maybe only as robust as the one already inside a computer. If the surge can blow through a computer, then is will also blow through that UPS.

NIST (US government research agency) says what the effective protector must do:
> You cannot really suppress a surge altogether, nor "arrest" it. What these
> protective devices do is neither suppress nor arrest a surge, but simply
> divert it to ground, where it can do no harm.

What would a UPS do? Stop, block, suppress, or arrest a surge? It does not. It can only address small (irrelevant and not destructive) voltages. Transients already made irrelevant by what is already inside all electronics. What would 5000+ joules do without earthing? Fail catastrophically during typically destructive surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules.

Only component always required in every protection system is single point earth ground. No earth ground means no effective protection. The NIST is even blunter:
> A very important point to keep in mind is that your surge protector will work
> by diverting the surges to ground. The best surge protection in the world can
> be useless if grounding is not done properly.

UPS and 5000 joules not attached within meters of single point earth ground are not just ineffective. The NIST calls it "useless".

Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Anyone who does not discuss where hundreds of thousands of joules are absorbed is promoting a scam. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. As true today as it was 100 years ago.

Building wide UPS located at the service entrance can provide surge protection due to a short connection to earth.

dkabab's claim about the warranty is a myth so often promoted by retail sales. Those warranties contain so many exemptions to not be honored. For example, one APC warranty said a protector in the building from any other manufacturer voided their warranty. Warranties say nothing about quality. GM has the industry's best warranty. That proves GM is superior to Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, etc? Of course not.

In free markets, a largest warranty is often an indicator of the most inferior products. A warranty, so chock full of exemptions that plug-in protectors mostly sold to scammed computer users, typically only replaces the protector.

Only component that must always exist in every protection 'system' is single point earth ground. A product that does not discuss where energy dissipates is selling a scam. Ineffective protectors will not even discuss earth ground. No protector does protection. Either the protector connects a surge to protection - or is a profit center.

Previously discussed was secondary protection. That protection layer is defined by the building's single point earth ground. Informed homeowners also inspect the primary surge protection system. What defines that protection layer?
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

As was true 100 years ago: a protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Rarely discussed by retails sales who cannot sell earth at obscene profits. Routinely discussed by companies that actually provide effective and well proven solutions:
http://www.polyphaser.com/technical_notes.aspx

 

Remix,

I have five of those that we use for our live shows, one in each rack... I don't know exactly 'what' they do, or how they do it, but I do know it takes care of any line noise when we're playing somewhere that doesn't have a good ground, or if a ground loop develops.

Mike

 

I tend to like these:

http://brickwall.thomasnet.com/item/industrial-surge-protectors/hard-wired/pw2rh15?

They don't rely on MOVs & knock on wood, I haven't ever suffered from any damage with them in use.