Hey, I was perusing the Autosport site and came across the following quote from Eric Boullier (Renault team principal): As long as the tires are the correct sizes, why? I believe the teams have given both Michelin and Pirelli the "specs" for what they want and it's now up to them to choose one supplier. But I don't get what he means by "wind tunnel tires"? Cheers, Ian
at high speeds or under load tires deflect and change shapes. I suspect this is accounted for in the wind tunnel?
is it related to the proposal from Michelin to jump for 18" wheels, same as for Le Mans series? it seems that such proposal was not accepted at all.
I may have missed it...but last I heard, they were considering a switch to 18" rims. The way the tire would expand at speed would be significantly different between a low profile sidewall and a wider sidewall. The way it expands at speed affects aerodynamics. The different size wheels would probably affect brake cooling and the aerodynamics associated with the brake ducts, etc. So, they need to know a lot more than static outer dimensions.
I don't remember when but it was on the Bridgestone vs Michelin fight, the Ferraris were slower then the others using Michelin, they were using just like you said the size and specifications on the wind tunnel not caring about the material. Somehow they found that Michelin was suplying "wind tunnel tires" for their teams, using the same rubber just scaled down and this makes all the difference on the wind tunnel.
Ross Brawn would also like to test the tires. Ross Brawn believes that Formula Ones teams must be allowed to sample the tyre specifications for 2011 before the end of the year, despite the sports ban on in-season testing. The Mercedes GP principals is adamant that a compromise can be found to test the new rubber without jeopardising the current regulations. There has got to be some testing with the new tyre supplier, whoever it is, so I think late summer and early winter there will be some tests organised with the new tyre supplier, Brawn told Autosport. But again, we must try and accommodate that within the teams we have. We cant afford to go out and start rebuilding test teams again. Brawn revealed that teams are hoping for next years batch of tyres will be similar to that of Bridgestone. The teams have together produced a technical specification of the tyre we want, he said. So there is a document that we have all contributed to which is a broad spec of the sort of tyre that we want which means there is a single directive to the new tyre supplier of the type of tyre that is needed. That means we can continue with the development of our cars. Our cars are being designed around the current tyres because we have no other information. So I think everybody wants a tyre to come in that has similar construction characteristics to the current tyre, whether the compounds are quite the same is another matter. Although a deal with Pirelli fell through at the Turkish Grand Prix, Peter Sauber is hopeful that the sports new tyre supplier will be announced next week in Canada. I hope we have a solution before Canada, the Sauber team boss said. It is not an easy situation this tyre situation, but it is important we have a tyre supplier for the next season and I think it is important to have a sole supplier tyre.
Thanks for the responses guys. As has been noted, at one point Michelin said they would only be interested in returning if they went to 18" wheels - It does seem like that idea has indeed gone cold. For good reason IMO - They'd have to radically change the suspension, I suspect it could even mandate a return to real, movable parts rather than the current "flexi" stuff - *Big* $..... Returning to the OP, sure, at speed, the tires will "deform" and that would have a small effect on the aero. However, I can't see the tire material having much impact in the scheme of things. I may be wrong (!), but the correct dimensions would seem to be all that's needed in the tunnel, at least at this stage. (?) Further, a lot of their tunnel work is with scale models - The "actual" tires would again be irrelevant. As usual, I agree with Ross - Let 'em go testing ASAP so they know what they're gonna be dealing with next year - That seems much more important to me than "wind tunnel tires". Cheers, Ian
http://www.f1-country.com/f1-engineer/aeorodynamics/f1-aerodynamics.html See the section on tires/wheels. According to that site: "The wheels of a formula one car probably induce the most drag of any part of the car." The design of the front wing (along with the entire body structure) is critical in "managing" this drag...and, F1 is a game of hundredths, if not thousandths. When you're looking for those thousandths, an approximation of what the tire might be is not going to be enough (in the mind of the engineers/designers). The reality is: if no teams have windtunnel tires, they are all behind the same 8-ball.
+1 Absolutely. There's *nothing* the Newey's of the world wouldn't give in return for getting the tires out of the airstream. *Plus*, they're spinning in the wrong direction, damnit! Buggers everything up!.... But, if there's one sacrosanct rule in F1, it's that your wheels *will* stick out. Their aero effect is indeed so great that they dominate the tunnel tests - Rolling roads improved things. But, I still can't see the need for "tunnel tires"!..... Sizes, amount (est) of "flex" at varying speeds etc, sure, but the *compound* seems to be what he wants. Indeed - "Same for all". I'm just not convinced it's a very big 8 ball - Unless M gets their 18" wish of course.... Cheers, Ian
The reason F1 is going to larger diameter wheels is for more brakes. (Also, the larger dia wheels will have more inertia, therefor they'll not want to change speeds nor direction as easily.) This will "slow the cars down" a bit. Bernie likes this part. The tires/wheels aspect of autoracing may be the single, largest impact on the sport.
Are they? Michelin at one point "suggested" going to 18"'s, but AFAIK that's gone dead (?) *If* so (changing from 13's to 18's) I would *guess* they'd be lighter overall (?) +1 [And the jockey of course ] Cheers, Ian
I would think that the wheels are a big part of the wind tunnel testing. Even if it is with scale models they can use similitude to recreate the tires and how they will perform at full scale. The way the tires are produced will have a significant effect on how they deform under speed and the simplest things such as the tire pressure will also affect how they deform. I think we can all agree that the teams spend insane amounts of money for fractions of a second on the track so I think it makes perfect sense that they'd want as much data and information on next years car as soon as they can get it.
