SRT Mike & Moretti

This argument is flawed. While it is true that more money and professionalism makes sure only the best make it to the top, you still can end up with years of an average field.

Just because less money went into the sport for instance in the seventies, doesn't mean that a Jackie Stewart couldn't possibly be a better driver than MS. Or a Fittipaldi, or a Clark or a Brabham etc. We simply don't know.

You're desperately trying to proove something that can't be proven.

Lets say: Now he finishes the races ahead of Rosberg. There are reasons for that.

 

Sadly, and the facts speak for themselves, that is SO not true.

 

Hey, I resemble that remark.

Regarding MS at the best driver ever, I think if Sebastien Loeb keeps it up he may get votes for that title.

 

For someone who insists he gets respected you sure talk some crap. What an inflammatory post.

No one on the F1 grid sucks, and that's a fact.

Tall poppy syndrome at its worst.

 

No you don't. You don't throw arguments around.

 

Splitting hairs?

Of course no F1 driver sucks. That comment is in comparison to his former talent. MS of 2000 wouldn't have spent half the Australian GP behind a rookie or the Chinese GP going backwards.

 

You ruined your credibility with that biased BS statement.

 

Darn. I'm shaken to my core.

Ok, here to make you guys happier a shot from Turkey (rest to follow later today):

And to be perfectly clear: MS doesn't suck, but his performance this year is much below what it used to be when he dominated F1 at the beginning of this decade.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Dare I call it just a "speech" . . .

- in these perilous times, all parties present should not only know it by heart, but accept and embrace it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3S_k1dRbXY

 

You disproved your own argument.

"more money and professionalism makes sure only the best make it to the top".

Therefore, clearly as time has passed, the field has gotten more competitive. No other way about it. And MS was a more successful driver than Jackie Stewart, during a more competitive era.

I am not desperate to prove anything... you are arguing for a stalemate. When someone is arguing for a draw, you know they realize they can't win the argument, but there is no draw - by any metric, any standard, any line of reasoning, MS is the best there has ever been, period.

When someone starts off with the mindset that MS isn't as great as the proof shows, then any reasoning will be used - no matter how tenuous - to keep the belief alive. It's like when the uber-religious people come up with various arguments to show that the bible is literally true.

Same with this argument. It's all too easy to show it's not true..

-Rosberg himself says the car is better for him as well
-MS' performance didn't suddenly change with the new chassis. He was gradually catching NR, then pulled even, then pulled ahead. Ergo, the new chassis isn't the reason
-We have an F-chatter who is within the team and he even says the new chassis was nothing to do with MS/NR, but rather a planned upgrade since before the season started.
-It is reasonable to think it would take a driver a few races to get back into the swing of things with a totally new car when he hasn't driven for years.
-We know MS is the ultimate competitor and will work hard to improve because he needs to win

To suggest that MS is only winning due to team favoritism of him, one would have to believe that:
-Rosberg was lying and the car was worse for him
-It was coincidence that MS was already catching NR, just a fluke, and the new chassis is indeed the reason he started beating him
-The f-chatter who says it wasn't about MS being favorite is a liar
-That a driver could get back into F1 in a radically different car with a different engine, different tires, different aero and should be immediately as quick as he was several years ago, with no testing and no time to get used to the car.
-That MS is not able to improve during the season due to his own merits and any improvement would have to have been unfairly begotten.

Now, when you read all the things one would have to believe to think that MS is only faster due to inter-team politics, it becomes clear how out-there the idea is.

MS is the best driver ever. He came back into F1 after a multi-year break into a totally different car and within a handful of races is already beating his extremely fast and talented teammate.

Because he is the best F1 driver there ever was.

 

My tactics are working: I got you off moretti's back.

 

With apologies to Dave for stealing his line, ahh the view from the grassy knoll

He's beating Rosberg because he is faster and will continue to get faster as he works off three years worth of rust and chicken vindaloos...

 

Hey Mike, remember that time when you said Schumi was going to win in his final season against Alonso and all was going to be great as he rode into the sunset perfectly?

Did you mean like next season or something?

 

Gee, you don't think being in a mid-pack vs a race win capable car like he had in the early 2000s has anything to do with that? I'm sure that age and other factors have of course made him slower since his early 2000s period of domination but to say that he "sucks" now is ridiculous.

 

Like I said, still early in Australia... he's probably lying in a pool of vegemite next to a naked kangaroo.



I am just busting your chops about MS Andreas. I personally do think he is the best of all time, and I know you are not a fan of his (to say the least). But it's fun arguing about it

You around in September? I will be in Chicago for IMTS (big machine tool show).

 

My buddy who went with me to the Turkish GP adores MS and Massa and hates Alonso. You can imagine we had a lot to discuss during our bus ride. But that's the whole point. If we'd all agree, it'd be boring.

For the most part yes, would be fun having a beer at a bar together or something.

 

This video is for Andreas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZzW9xP5Jzc

 

Merci. C'etait formidable mais ils ont oublie les annees 2005, 2006 et 2010.

MS - The driver with simply the best statistics.

What's funny is the fact, that a French speaking person put this together. After all they got 4 times WDC Alain Prost, yet a French person puts a German over their own hero. Incroyable!

 

F1 in the 80's and early 90's had better drivers. There were four WDC's in the field then and 3 of them were three time champs or better. I don't think it's any more competitive today then it was back then.

 

+1

Similar story in the seventies with several WDCs who had won multiple times. And cars where an off moment often meant death or severe injuries.

Also lets not forget that the only important part of the competition is the very edge of the field, meaning how many real contenders there were at any given time. It doesn't really matter what the majority of the field is like. In the early years we had gentlemen driver and today we have occasionally pay drivers (remember JLo, who almost made it in?). But those are irrelevant, since they never have a shot at the title anyway. So counting WDCs in the field is a good measure of how competitive it is.

 

We can all agree Tina is great!

 

Agreed.

 

I feel like a cigarette.......

 

Would that be a Marlboro?

And do you think smoking is addictive? And would smoking automatically compromise your health and lead to cancer? And should Ferrari therefore not be advertising Marlboro on its cars? And do people identify the barcodes with the Marlboro logo? And do therefore the barcodes lead to cancer?



Nuff already. Let's settle for a hug instead...

 

So basically you are forgetting the 60s, 70s, and 80s with your rationale. Granted is stats are superlative, but to label him the best of the best you are discounting the likes of Fangio, Clark, Senna et al.