New idea in engine "swap"

I always thought the Yamaha OHC motors from the Taurus SHO would be a cool swap.

 

If you're going to go a little nuts, go all the way: 2-stroke V8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRKeuHyI0lw

Always wanted to put one of these in something like a Miata.

 

I post this on just about everything single engine swap thread because to me it is such a no brainer, but IMO the best bang for the buck is just taking a QV 3.0L or 3.2L block and retrofitting it with Webers, just as the 911 guys have been doing forever. These motors are good for about 280-300hp and good running motors seem to be around for about $5k.

To me this is the best of all worlds, you keep the originality (somewhat), there is virtually zero fabrication, you are not far behind that Carobu 3.5L in terms of hp for a fraction of the price, and you have all that Weber bling under the bonnet along with the correct Ferrari sounds coming out the exhaust. I have half thought about removing my good early cammed motor, removing the Webers, selling it for the price of a 3.0 or 3.2 QV motor, buy a 3.0 3.2QV motor, get the manifold for the conversion, headers, a quick trip the exhaust fabricator and I'm back on the road sitting on close to 300hp for a net cost of maybe $3000-4000. People spend three times that amount on rebuilds for half the power gain that you have with that conversion. Even with the price of the motor you are at a comparable, if not still cheaper, price than a rebuild.

No brainer....... just as long as you are in a non emissions state.

 

Where are the "conversion" manifolds available?
2v manifols will not fit on QV heads

JD

 

Tom, totally agree with you, that's a super nice upgrade in terms of power.

However, the 911 folks aren't typically getting 280-300hp out of a 3.2 carrera with webers (or PMOs), even with twin plugs from the 964 dizzy and HC pistons and bigger valves. More like 260-275. The stock 911sc engine with CIS is putting out 184hp and with webers it's getting around 220-225....maybe. The 3.2 carrera engine is only about an 8% increase in displacement, and with all the go fast bits above is still short of the 280-300 range (I know first hand). The 3.2 ferrari V8 will do a little better with the flat crank and higher redline due to the direct actuation of valves but it's still an engine of modest displacement and therefore correspondingly modest output. What we really need is a 5.0 ltr stroke and bore kit.....

 

In still think forced induction is the go...and it can be bolted straight off for originality..

 

Actually my hp estimates were for the Ferrari QV motors w/ Webers. I was using SNJ5's Mondial dynos as a baseline.

There are QV conversion manifolds out there. Nick Forza I believe has them, somebody out of Australia was making them as well, and somebody here just posted a thread in the 308 section over the last couple days that they were going to be making some as well. I believe you would probably need different headers as well.

 

The Maser engine imo would be a sweet torquey swap. If you wanna go crazy how about an older Cosworth/Ford F1 engine swap? I'm just sayin.....

 

I don’t think there are any to be had. Frank Capo in Oz had a bunch made up but Russ got the last set and the models have gone missing….which is why Scott is talking about re-making the molds and I’d guess plans to offer the parts thru Nick. So, at the moment the only option is to fab up a set of manifolds…figure $1000-$1500 I’d think.

There is no ned to change headers, but you might be able to do better than stock.

 

I'm guessing we are talking about one of the newer engines like 4.2? It would be a nice swap, but I'm not sure how much of a bolt-in it would be......it would probably be quite a bit of work with new headers, probably a new intake to get it under the hood, at least adapters to get it on the 308 trans and maybe an oil pump relocation if it's anything like the 355/360 block.

 

ANY engine other than the original or variation of will be alot of custom work and unless a new engine cradle is crafted that uses all the original mounts would it really be worth it?

 

Would the headers off the 2v cars fit on the 4v heads?

That is why I am such a proponent of the carbed QV swap. Think about how much $$$, time, and fabrication, was done to get that Fiero engine in that 308. If budget is of any bit of a concern I just can't see any other viable option out there other than going with something designed to fit in there in the first place.

 

Here's a sweet motor for a conversion:

http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm
http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/4566006.htm
http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562069.htm

 

Man I would love to drop one of those in an GenII MR2 or a Miata but daym $27K!!!!!!

 

YES!!!! My favorite engine on the planet!!! Not for a Ferrari though, more like an Aeriel Atom.

 

ex$pen$ive, but think about the exclu$ivisty and bragging right$...

JD

 

The exclusivity would be rather nice for my own personal satisfaction but braggings rights have never been my 'cup of tea'. Don't get me wrong I want one BAD but realize it may never happen unless someone here is willing to offer me a 30yr interest free loan, wink wink?????? Heck even then I would go overboard by atleast another $10K installing a 'low boost' TT and EMS setup for an additional 100+hp.

Yes I have issues so be kind ok lol??

Anyway back ontopic sorry Piloto.

tex

 

Yes and no...mostly no. if you are swapping in a QV/328/348/355/360 then you only NEED to replace the flanges, but the tubes will be on the small side for anything past the 328.

For a 430/450 the cylinder spacing chaged (I'm pretty sure) so not only will you need to change the flanges but you'll also need to do some work to get the tubes to the right place and they will still be to small when you're done. Custom SS headers will run several thousand $$$.....I spent over $2k on just the material for my V12 headers.

 

I've been considering this for a while . As some of you know when I've finished building my 2V motor . I want to see if I can get a 360 motor to fit onto a 308 gearbox .
I have a spare G/B and a dummy 360 motor ( the burnt motor Mark got some of his conrods out of ) Must admit I haven't got very far !!!
Re the Maser I think it not a flat crank so you won't get the Ferrari flat crank sound ??
Interesting that Carobu are now making there own cranks I'd love to know why ?? Availablity or is there an engineering issue ?
Using 355/360 internals in a 308/328 block makes the most sense . A 360 crank just drops in !!!

 

As Mark and few of us well know there is no 'engine swap' that is cost effective. it's more for the novelty than anything. If you're looking for more HP then it's best to build out the engine or bolt on a blower. to keep it as simple as possible.

adding webers to the later Qv's is also an option, having the cams modified would also be very helpfull and suggested to really take advantage of that change.

while the newer Maserati engines share similar architecture the layout is not transverse so it will take some 'custom' fab work to fit it to the gear box. Then there is the issue of the engine management, the newer engines won't run sans the OEM electronics as they should, the biggest hurdle is the cam variator control. the feedback on the motors is inter-played with chassis and gearbox.

I'd honestly look at the maser engine for parts, crank, rods, etc.. instead of a direct swap.

Personally IMHO what the 3x8 chassis need is not high HP but more Tq down low, that's where the majority of the driving is. A "turbo diesel" would be a great swap conversion.

 

360 cranks have gone sky high in cost! $7k+ US from last check. Still I'd rather for peace of mind have an OEM crank than risk a rebuild from an aftermarket one letting go. a good custom crank is going to be in the $5k range anyway.

 

There was a custom Dodge ( I think ) station wagon built with a 360 motor and box in the back !! They used a Motec M48 and just left the exhaust variator be . If I remember correctly they had an issue with the drive by wire and eventually convert to mechanical throttle.
I'm sure they were leaving HP on the table not getting the exhaust variators to work , but I don't think they were looking for every last HP .
A 360 is suppose to make close 400HP so I think anything around 350HP would be a huge improvement in a 308 .
$7000 for a crank ??? Mmmm maybe I can afford to buy a Motec M800 if I can sell the spare crank .
Is the Maser engine variable on both cams ??

 

As noted in Post #20, the Maser engine has a totally different crank design....

 

The last one that turned up on ebay sat a month at $450 before being pulled and whole 360 engine turn up under $3k. A 3.6L 308 seems do-able....but as you said boost is by far the cheapest option.