458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts?

No one buys these cars (Ferrari, Lamborghini, Mclaren etc.) based on the numbers, in fact I would go as far to say that isn't the second or third reason someone buys an exotic. Who cares if the Mclaren is faster? If you want to go fast on a track all the time, you wouldn't buy a car with a stereo, AC, airbags etc. You would go out and buy a track car or something you could cheaply turn into a track rat. Honestly who goes out on a track in their Ferrari at 10/10ths? Almost nobody. Why? The cost is enormous, between tires, added stress to the mechanicals and potential damage is just doesn't make any sense. God forbid you total the car, your insurance company will not be picking up the tab. There is no trophy on a track day, there is no cash prize, and no sponsors. So yes the Mclaren maybe be a tick faster but which owners are ever going to stretch the car far enough out to find that tick? Somehow I think owners will be far more concerned with depreciation, service cost, and drivability than 0-60.

 

Maybe the stats, but I'm sure that the driving experience will be totally different. I'm surprised as a lot of the people seem to be interested in how a car looks and not how it drives. Why don't you just go and by a replica

 

It's all about how it drives. But how it drives is not defined by 0-60 numbers.

 

+1000

but great 0-60 times certainly are enticing

 

I disagree, I am an owner who delights in driving my Ferrari at particular track events at 10/10ths, why not enjoy the car on the track without the risks of danger to others, loss of licence, who cares about tyres, added stress or potential damage - if you can drive there is no real risk of crashing. IMO there is no way to really enjoy a Ferrari, or similar performance vehicle in safety, without driving on the track. Absolutely the best way to learn the limits of your car & enjoy at the same time, certainly better than just driving it to the local cafe and parking for a coffee

Sure if you want to do it every weekend you will have a track dedicated car, but for the person who wants to drive their Ferrari or similar performance car really fast up to 6 or so times a year, give me the track every time.

I agree the 0-60 is not the all consuming need, the overall 'drive' experience is what does it for me, with the ability to push it on the track a number of times per year and the car be able to take it. Ferrari & Porsche even more so, are able to do this.

 

Oh, definitely. But at this level they've all got great 0-60s. That one might be better than another is only by degree. And, much of the time driving even something like an F430 (which, of course, is well down on these two) on the road is an exercise in frustration because you can't get anywhere near that point in the envelope where the car comes alive (and it's not for lack of trying on my part ), so even bigger numbers become irrelevant. Still, as has been said here before, those numbers will be great for boring your friends with down the pub.

 

+1

I was being more tongue in cheek with that comment

 

Yes, I see from the post that followed that, although I don't 'track', we're of the same mind.

 

I think Jerry was saying that the difference of a few tenths in 0-60 or a few seconds around a track mean little when deciding to buy such an expensive car.

Yes, we want performance. But, we also want EMOTION. Like Ron Dennis himself, the car he created seems to have little aside from what's under the skin.

There is something to be said about making a car "too perfect". It's the Italian flair of "non-perfection" that keeps most of us interested in Ferrari.

The SLR is a great machine. Outstanding capability and outstanding engineering.

But, who cares? Not many.

 

- Summed up perfectly...and that's why I sold the GTR in a heartbeat. No emotion.

 

The problem with SLR was not that it was too perfect. The problem was that it was a POS heavy barge for all its high technology. It was just not a good car. Keep in mind, though, that Ferrari has made its share of turds over the years. So, I am willing to give McLaren the benefit of the doubt, given that the fundamentals of the car look much better than Italia's.

 

This would be true if you were deciding between similar cars like the Scud vs. the GT2.

But the McLaren could be a whole notch above those in terms of the driving experience.

Full CF tub? That weight with that kind of HP? This isn't Scud vs. GT2, this will be 996 Turbo vs. Carerra GT, IMO. Now we're not talking about 10ths of a second in 0-60 times, we're talking about a car that is in a class of its own.

 

And I'll say again, the driving experience will not be defined by 0-60 times. Now, the Ron1234_MI5 may be a superb drive, but if it is it will be about more than numbers. In fact, more performance may even work against the driving experience. As I said before, I often find the F430 a little frustrating on the public road because you spend so much time comfortably inside the envelope even if you're thrashing it. If the Ron posts significantly higher numbers then you're going to spend even more time not testing the car's limits, you're going to be even further away from the point where the car comes alive and does what it's intended to do. We're might be at the point where these car are becoming self defeating.

 

I know this is Ferrari Chat, but obviously the McLaren (or Ron) just can't win...

If the MP4-12C performs better, it's "too much", but if the 458 performs better, it's the better car?

Neither of these cars will (or could) be driven by the majority of their owners over 6/10s, ever. The performance is nothing but bragging rights, but we all know how important that is to some

 

Ron can't win because no first time buyer will by one before a Ferrari. Like I said before, this will be just one more car added to a rich guys stable for bragging rights or for speculators who will keep them as garage queens.

A McLaren is not a Ferrari and he ain't gonna change that anytime soon.

 

Are you kidding me?! The SLR is anything but outstanding!!
It had a major brake problem. it's Very heavy and Very overpriced yet it had the worst MB interior ever. Dont even get me started on how the floor under the driver gets boiling hot after 20 mins of driving.

 

When is the McLaren promised to arrive anyway? What are its performance figures?

Personally, in this market, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

The fact that this thread has already generated so many posts proves that the McL is a serious contender - otherwise why would everyone be getting defensive. Until we see it and drive it, we won't know for sure, but the chances are very high that this will be a very handy car. That's no bad thing for Ferrari - we need decent competition to encourage Ferrari to produce better and better cars. Let's face it - pretty much every other manufacturer is in the dark ages compared to the engineering and tech in all Ferraris today.

 

Exactly

There are many cars than cant get to 60 in less than 5 seconds that are FAR more fun to drive than many that get there in the 3's.

Stats IMO are meaningless. Its all about how it feels and I cant see the Mclaren competing with the 458

Plus the 458 is way better looking so unless the mclaren is way more fun to drive the 458 wins by aesthetics.

 

Im not a baller like many here but Ive owned a F355, Viper, M3, Elise and some others and I have to say they are ALL wonderful to drive in their own distinctive ways....so that means the looks of it are usually what makes the difference.

 

i said it before and i'll say it again... super duper cars these days are, and will be able to do insane numbers...much more insane than accessible for 90% of customers. the question here is not IF the Mp will be faster, it will, but how..the manner.. it will DELIVER that crushing performance. antiseptic? a bland rush of speed? we already know its engine has a very nondescript 'blaaahhhhhoooosh' sound, but we don't know how it 'feels' in the process of going fast. nevermind the service issues that are bound to complicate ownership...i would just like to see/hear a proper review of how it DRIVES compared to a 458 etc... eeesh, how many 'real' cars have they made at this point? when are first deliveries, 1 yr, 2 yrs, 5 away?

 

Who's being defensive? What's so wrong in telling the truth?

Competition is a good thing. Bring it on. But the idea that this car will affect 458 sales is silly. All Ron will have are bragging rights. He's trying to outdo Ferrari. Big mistake. He should be trying to outdo Lotus.

If performance were the key, everyone would buy a Zonda over a 458. Not gonna happen

As to the number of posts, what would you expect when you ask this question on a Ferrari site?

 

Sure, it's gonna affect Ferrari sales to some degree. Those cars are direct competitors. My dealer offered me 458 allocation and I said pass. I am waiting for the McLaren.

 

So you're the one!

Just kidding. I think it will be an outstanding machine. I just think they are looking at the wrong market to build an expensive factory to crank out 6500 cars a year.

Let's hope they don't become another Deloreon.