458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts?

I've been one of the more vocal McLaren supporters in this thread (I love Ferrari, too!), but that's the first I'd heard of McLaren's production target... 6,500/year? Not for the whole run?

6,500 a year is insane! That would far exceed the F430, no? If that's their target, I think they'll fall far short. No a complete failure, but there's a lot of room between complete failure and 6,500/year!

 

+1

Plus direct comparison of drives of the competitors.

 

If I remember well, Ferrari produced 6900 cars (overall) last year...., so yes, the figure seems insane. But who knows how much it is real, maybe also good com to convince the press, dealers, public to take them seriously.

Now on the topic, I am sure that the McLaren will be a great car. I find however the thread irrelevant: none of us has driven the McLaren, less than 5% of us have driven the 458.
Even press reviews are often very misleading. I remember the day I test drove both the Aston Vantage V8, the 430, the LP560, the GT3, the GT3 RS and an Audi R8 V8: when you read articles, they are often presented like direct competitors, when you drive them on the same day, you feel so much difference!! The Aston is complete crap (even my Audi S4 drives better), the R8 is unimpressive (not a real supercar), the difference between the LP 560 and the 430 is shocking (LP560 feeling so much more powerful and feeling like it is sticking much more to the road, you see the design is more recent), the GT3RS is probably the best of all... And these differences were obvious even to an amateur driver like me, not pushing the car above 8/10th...

So bottom line, let's just wait until some people have driven both and have some real facts to discuss....

Personally, I bought a 458 - just test drive it with your dealer and you will see that it is so vastly superior than a 430 that the comparison is meaningless: feel much more powerful, better traction, better handling, an extreme car while at the same time feeling safer and giving you more confidence to test the limits (Scuderia power, but with a safety net... some pro drivers would not like it, I love it)

I didn't consider the MP4, not because I think that the 458 is a better car than McLaren - I never considered the MP4 because I find it ugly like a Cheap Japanese car (same reason why I would never buy a GTR)...

 

right you are. i absolutely love the engineering of the MP4...the carbon monocell, the subframes, it is exquisite and 'clean'...then we get to the body...for me..bleh, and the sound i've been hearing from various vid's...not very nice. then we get to the dealer network..the nitty gritty. but of course i can't afford either i will applaud those who can appreciate things for their own reasons, and buy what THEY like, not what most think is 'better'. i'm sure owners can rationalize their purchase regardless

 

I am a long-time Ferrari lover, and I love the 458 Italia. But the MP4's engineering I feel is unmatched - they have REALLY vetted each millimeter of this car to their F1 standards. They are completely obsessive engineers because Ron Dennis is a bit of an obsessive-compulsive nut and the engineers reflect this type of thinking. The company internally was horrified by the SLR - at the weight and features demanded by MB - and wish they could erase it from their past; the MP4 is their retribution.

Trust me, Ron is set on building a Ferrari-like car company here and he will be successful; he is one of those extremely competent and intelligent people who drive successful businesses.

Ferrari has a very serious, long-term competitor here - and it will be exciting for the consumer as we will be subjected to better and better cars in the future due to enhanced competition, from both companies.

 

good news. not sure why everyone is shocked at the possibility of this car being better, not just faster, than the 458.

 

This thread got me curious, so I thought I'd drop into the local McLaren dealer and see for myself...

Anyway, I look forward to hearing more about the upcoming range of world-beating new McLarens that are "just around the corner" when my 458 is due for replacement.

Seriously, we'd be better off making comparisons with next model Gallardo which will be a more even competitor than anything from a tiny outfit (in road car terms) like McLaren.

 

I wouldnt even consider the McLaren based purely on looks and the interior which I feel is very dated and not befitting a sports car, there is nothing special in there. In looks its looks a bit like an Ascari...

To be honest McLarens "oh we will be better than everyone else despite the fact we have only one road car to our name" is a laugh, especially when we heard the same thing when the SLR was launched.

It should be faster than the 458 seeing it has 600bhp but lets be honest it should be considering it needs turbos to achieve that power.

 

Sorry, but where is the tread where everyone is 'shocked' at the possibility of this car being better. I think I've missed that one.

 

I thought the same thing about the F1. It was a car that never had the best look but as other
exotics have gotten bigger the F1 is starting to show that it had a design that stands the
test of time. In Top Gear's comparison between Bugatti Veyron and Mclaren's F1... it was
funny how most people were cheering for the old F1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq7S4gkPGHc
I watched the video... they mentioned the F1 was 500,000 pounds new, and is now worth 2 million.
I guess its closest Ferrari competitor at the time was F50? Does anyone have any old photos of
F1 vs F50?

It might be fun to dig up an old thread from 1993 and see how the Ferrari fans were talking about
the F1 back then, and what arguments were being made for and against Mclaren as they were
moving into Ferrari's territory.
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I would buy a MP4-12C over a 458 for sure. I think the technology and engineering that has gone into the McLaren is far superior. Maybe when the 458 Scuderia version comes about, I might have a re-thought.

 

Same here. The current Scuderia is a great car. I have high hopes for the next. Till then, the McLaren seems like a better bet.

 

So you're sure that all that technology will translate into a better drive, then? Or is it technology for technology's sake that's attracting you before you've even sampled either car? Are you being seduced by spin?

 

Thats more baller than 99% of the US population!

 

They did it with the F1.

The SLR was, unfortunately, a Mercedes. The MP4 looks to be everything the SLR wasn't.

Speaking of technology, I don't see that ruining the MP4. Seeing as Ferrari has long been the leader in exporting F1 tech into its road car lineup...

 

Unless I passed it by in the earlier posts, does anyone know the price for the McLaren? A few months back the NYT had an article stating it would start at $191K and Edmunds has the starting price at $265K. At $191K, the McLaren is a bargain.

 

Well the F1 was great but it was the dream of my countryman Gordon Murray, a concept he was working on for 30 odd years before he built it. Apart from the F1 what road car pedigree does McLaren have? Yes, nothing to speak of so all this talk about being the best out of the box is just plain arrogance in my opinion. The fact they saw need to creat hype about the car so long before it goes on sales leads me to think they are a tad unsure about the market reception a new McLaren may have.

Granted as I mentioned I am biased, I dont like McLaren at all mosty for reasons which relate to their conduct in F1.

 

We're all biased here

I'm playing devil's advocate in this thread. Given the choice I'd buy the 458, because I couldn't imagine paying $300,000 for something as hideous as the McLaren.

What entices me about the McLaren is the weight....2800 lbs I believe? Lighter cars drive better. And this one has 40 more hp than the Ferrari.

And you have the full CF tub, plus the F1 braking tech for understeer and the Pre Cog gear selection etc. etc. but that doesn't matter as much to me

 

the car is not going to start at 190k...errr..no..

 

2800 sounds a bit optimistic. They quote 1300 kg dry. For comparison, the scud is 1250 dry and around 1400 kg with fluids and fuel. So I would expect the McLaren to end up at around 3100 curb weight, which would be 300-400 lbs lighter than 458.

 

Since this a Ferrari forum, I see a lot of bias here. Both cars are over priced and both cars are exciting cars. However, I just want to point out that passion is something you feel with any car as long as you like it and as long as it pleases you, it not a Ferrari thing alone. also
the MP will have a fewer number that the Ferrari, so it's more exclusive. as for dealers, they might strike a deal with Mercedes or open something of their own. And want to add that my favorite car of all times is the Meclaren F1, not a Ferrari, but my favorite "affordable" supercar is a Ferrari 458.

 

Just saw this on "4WheelsNews.com"

"Sales of McLaren’s MP4-12C have been quite impressive. Delivery of the car is slated to begin in spring 2011. Since the first images with McLaren’s latest supercar were shown last September, more than 1,600 people have signed official expressions of interest in purchasing one.

But since only 1,000 units of the MP4-12C will be produced, about 600 other potential buyers will have to wait until further notice. Earlier, McLaren had said that 25% of the units will be sold in the UK and 25% in the US. The rest will be delivered all around the world, primarily in Germany and Europe. Production of the MP4-12C supercar will be at the new McLaren Production Center, the place where the Mercedes-Benz McLaren SLR supercar was built. It will be sold through 35 franchises in 19 countries that will be confirmed this summer, according to a report by egmcartech. Prices have not been officially released but it’s believed that this supercar will enter the £125,000 - £175,000 (142,000 euros - 200,000 euros; $190,000 - $270,000) price range."

 

Just as some people are being, likewise, seduced by the 458 spin.