Here is the link of all the pictures done yesterday by Julien at the Auction : http://picasaweb.google.com/julien.mazerolle/20100619Espada7024Osenat# looks as it has a lot to be done before being a show queen... Here is what Julien said also on another forum : 1) Title and registry a. It is a weird situation. I asked the carte grise and I could see it, but the guy did not let me make a copy of it. So I wrote down on a paper the key info b. The current owner never registered the car so, the carte grise is still from the previous owner (Henri Jacob) who bought it in November 2004 however, in November 2004, it was stated on the carte grise that the owner was not allowed to drive the car on public roads (technical control required). I also noticed that it was sold twice in 2004. c. Previous history of the car is not known from Osenat; it seems that the car was initially sold in Torino, and then went to France. Osenat had 0 document on the car, except the carte grise. d. So, once the car is restored, it can be registered in France (do not know the requirements for other countries) 2) Body a. Overall, the body is in fair condition I saw some rust on the rear left fender and on the front right one. b. The gold painting is in pretty good shape, and if the car had been cleaned, it would look really great. c. I did not see any dent or any repair so I guess the previous owners took really good care of the car no rust either d. The uniqueness of the body is the opening of the small windows of the front doors it worked perfectly, however, the rubber seals were dead. e. A set of keys is available and they worked except for the fuel tanks 3) Engine a. It is a mystery it looks rather clean, but Osenat told me that it would not be a good idea to try to start the car. They recommend to open it and change / check internals. b. Clutch is incredibly hard ; I did not notice anything special in the gearbox, but really difficult to say its current condition! c. The engine has 1 distributor (I thought S1 had 2) and 1 alternator for whatever reason, the capacitor on the distributor seemed brand new and replaced yesterday! d. There were 2 different coils, one without external resistor I suspect that somebody tried to start the car some time ago and fiddled with the ignition. e. Exhaust probably needs to be replaced. f. At least, it seems complete! 4) Interior a. Many unique things that I have not seen on Espadas (however, I do not know the S1 very well), such as the small clock in front of the passenger, and the starter in the center console. b. Ventilation: this one has an A/C system with part of the ventilation in the ceiling (see pictures) c. The leather of the seats is in poor condition (many cracks, because very dry) and probably needs to be replaced it would be quite a challenge to keep it and just replace the foam in the seats. d. However, the carpet seemed pretty new, relative to the rest of the interior. e. The steering wheels needs to be repaired some cracks in the rim. f. Electric windows buttons are missing there are plastic buttons that are not really fitted (not connected) g. The spare wheel boot is in very good condition and the spare wheel did not have any dent / markings 5) Estimate a. Osenat estimate is 12-15KE however, there is no rational estimate on this car I could even justify a negative estimate b. Estimation of restoration i. Probably the best deal would consist to bring it to Top Motors (Nonantola), because there are a lot of details that they should know to restore the car to its original condition. ii. I tried to make a small breakdown of the restoration cost Restoration work Cost (KE) Engine 15-20 Gearbox 5-7 Exhaust (stainless steel) 3-5 Misc engine (fuel tanks, lines ) 5 Bodywork 5-10 Interior (seats, carpets, ) 5-7 TOTAL 38-54 Will probably go to the auction tomorrow, and I guess that anything can happen (even not sold) there is no reserve price, but I do not know the start price (probably around 7-10KE) Julien Mazerolle Espada 9126
Hi Peter K. , did you buy #7024 ??? apparently it has been bought by phone today to Osenat Auction. Here is what our french fellow Julien reports : As expected the results were quite irrational and both vehicles have been bought on the phone. - Espada: 23.5KE, started at 10KE, moved pretty quickly to 17KE and then step by step to 23.5 KE - Mangusta: 43 KE, fierce battle, many people seemed to be interested (maybe, much easier to restore than the Espada) Julien Mazerolle => So it means it went for 30.000 US$ for a restoration project, that's what I call a gap in between european price and USA... keep thinking about it ! My advice, next time you can buy in USA a Lambo for 15.000 US$ or 20.000 US$ jump on it !
I think that's grossly over simplifying it Oliver. This was not just any restoration project. We've had unrestored unique S1 cars sell for not that much less over here before. The rough condition white S1 car on Ebay just sold for $18K and it's a garden variety S1. This one was very different from that one. But if you're at least somewhat correct about a pricing differential then I expect any such cars here will be traveling to Europe. They're not in high demand here. That wonderfull looking original green/black S2 here sold for $40K and was a terrific deal compared to the one that sold today. The S2 is a better car than an S1 but this one had all that early and rare stuff on it. Plus it was auctioned with with a light coasting of bull and chicken sh*t. THAT must be the reason for all the interest in this car! ;>)) Bob S.
I want to tell everyone how disgusted I am with Osenat Auction House. I had sign up for the auction to get this Espada. Spend enormous amount of time on this. Also had Patrick (countachqv) help as he is from France. The place has all my info, including bank........and those *******s never called. They were suppose to call 5 minutes before the car went up. NO CALL. Drove an hour to Patrick's house and we sat for 4hrs waiting. I am soooooooooooo pissed right now.
Why not post this in a more conspicuous place on Fchat. They deserve the bad press. So sorry for you Peter. I would have loved to see that car here. Bob S.
It seems to me that to sell a car well above its value, you must take it to a well publicized auction in Europe. Actually the place to sell seems to be Germany and may be the UK?. The French did not go crazy from what I am hearing here. The Americans dont want to overpay for cars and actually love to get a bit a a deal. There seems to be a mass hysteria during auction that is hard to replicate elsewhere other than the stadium of soccers where riot explode out of nowhere. Here is a seller that wanted 20KE about and he gets 23.5K (buyer will pay 16% of commission on top!!!) while for months he could not get anything for it..! Then the Goose at $43K??? when a running one in the USA in good condition runs a bit over that.. Was the Goose the No 1 made? this car will need way more than a 50K restauration. Just the paint will be a 20-30K job. No wonder why the USA cars are flying back to Europe at record speed! I think that selling cars at auction is the way to go for the a seller.
Don't forget the 'barn fresh' factor...In the states its very common for unrestored, rough cars bring close to the price of restored examples. Why? I guess the psychology of starting with something that no one else has touched for years. For me they seem to have more character, but I wouldn't necessarily pay a high premium for the privilege. When I first started buying cars, the ones in the barns were usually cheaper!
Does anyone have cross reference part numbers for bearings in the diff? I have a SIII auto and want to replace all bearings in the diff. Any make would be fine as these are cross referable to other manufacturers If you do have this could you email me and post? [email protected] Thanks Paul
They call that farm "patina". So if I want to auction mine at Monterey to maximum effect I should let it age for a year or more in an open sided barn somewhere (preferably a chicken ranch) then trot it on out on Monterey weekend to collect my big wad of cash. Gentleman I see a business opportunity here. Someone should open up an exotics aging ranch near Salinas, throw in some hay a couple of eggs and free delivery to the auction. Then charge for this privileged aging process! ;>)) Bob S.
You have to pick your venue carefully...the ladies at Monterey don't like getting manure on their shoes There's a barn down the road from me we can hide 'em in while they 'mature'
Yes, we'd have to be very careful about getting the various forms of scat in the chardonnay & champagne during tours ... ;>) I already have a nice 60 acre ranch in the Sierra foothills that's just lying dormant. So I could process a lot of cars. The only problem is that I don't have the chickens and cattle. It's more like a few of the neighbors stray goats, a lama or two, fruit trees and there are then the bears and mountain lions. Those last two can do an awful lot of damage. Maybe a better idea is just to market spray cans of "barn residue" at your local Pep Boys ... ;>) Bob S.
Ever watch Chasing Classic Cars? He's a pro and has taken some pretty big losses along with the winners. So it ain't a lock. This car just got the right international buzz. I swear, it must have been the chicken sh*t ... He was a GD genius for leavin' em dirty! Bob S.
Peter, i can understand your frustration, but looking at the bright side, given the selling price (23.500 euro + 16% = 27.260 euro! ) it looks to me you did not lost such a good buy... from what i heard, this car sold for WAY over its value (in the conditions it is) without even looking at it, i venture to say there are easily over 35k euro to be spent in restoration, add shipping, taxes and few minor stuff you would sure end up with over 70k euro invested in an espada sure such an early S1 car woulbe a COOL car to own (i am an S1 fan to and this one looks to be somewhat a special S1) but we should not forget you can almost get a nice, running LP400S in US for this money.... on the financial side absolutely not worth the effort (imo)
I agree too Peter believe us you didn't miss a Lambo jewel... read again Tom's comments on VLG !!! I'm pretty sure, others will show in a near future, within 5 years, just be patient...
Now let me play the devil's advocate. If he can find an S1 that early in very nice shape in a year or two for under the amount you calculated I agree with you guys. But this may be hard. Ask Daryl what it would take for him to part with his lovey black one. I bet he won't and if he would it wouldn't be cheap. That car cost over 100K to restore 15 years ago. Ifhe wants a fresh complete restoration of a VER Yearly s1 this was probably the best route. Even if sold for 10-15K more than it should have in the overall scheme of things that amount is insignificant. No one considering these cars can be thinking about even braking even. It's pointless to compare it to a Lp400, very different cars. He seems to really want an Espada. God bless him and get him to a psychiatrist asap. Remember what 7023 (the most unique Espada?) sold for quite a while ago and in truth it was in very similar shape except that the paint looked fantastic. The rest of the car was a mess. Bob S.
Do you have any pictures for #7023 ? I've no records at all for that one! Maybe you mean the glass roof which I noted down as #7293.
Amen...do you have any idea how far underwater I'll be on 7260 if I do a full resto?! I was holding my breath before I even bid, haha What do you call a "beater" or POS car in italian? Its got a big trunk... how bout a v12 parts chaser!
That's a hard one to answer (guess really) on such little info but why not wit until you get the car and have made a very close assessment. It's beyond snorkle depth ... Do you have your financial diving certificate yet? ;>) The real question is at what point does the Espada tranform into a Wakazashi? Bob S.
Funny Emilio, when we found with Peter we had the same comment. For just a little more money you would get a Countach. may be then the Countach are undervalued in the US. I see a strong trend in Europe of all the exotics commending much more money. The car market in Europe must still be good despite the crisis and falling Euros for cars like these to sell at these upper limit levels. I suspect they have not found all the money hidden in Switzerland yet.. Or as it was said it must be the chicken sh.t.. I start beleiving that!... Would not work in the US thou.. I am wondering if the espada wont be sold for part. Could the buyer make more that 26K on parting it out?
I just wanted an S1 Espada. Yes, I missed the auction but what it sold for has put me at ease. I just want everyone to know that just because you have a vintage Lamborghini does not mean you have to restore it. All these board talk of getting cars based on a full restoration. I am not one of those guys. For example, If I had won that S1 I would only do what it took to get the motor running. Be it a repair or a rebuild. Fuel lines, rebuild brakes. That's it. I could clean up the rest of the car (paint and interior) and drive every couple of weeks. If the paint was original, I do not think I would have ever touch that original paint. That is something special. Along with the beautifully cracked original interior. For now I will not pursue an Espada or Jarama.....but I do want both. Unless something special happens. For now, the Countach has a rebuilt starter in it and the body is being prepped for paint. Then the Urraco should have some service.
