I'd like to get some advice from the folks who own a 308. Here is my hypothesis: If you buy a 308 and never plan on selling it (as in. you're not worried about the value going up) and given that this is '80's technology why not work on the car yourself? so my questions are: 1. Is there anything that stops you from working on an '83 to '85 308 yourself? 2. Is there diagnostic software that would prohibit you from working on the car yourself? (on board computers, etc.) 3. If you're not worried about the resale value of the car, what other things keep you from working on the car yourself?
1. I fix lots of things 2. There is no computer! 3. On lots of specific Ferrari items, engine and transmission, the learning curve is steep, and you want someone with experience to insure satisfactory results. "Do overs" are no fun and can get expensive. Have fun!!
1. Just being a bit scared of it...if I mess something up its quite the pretty lawn ornament. 2. Nope 3. See #1, in other words my own insecurities. There is NO Haynes Manual for this thing, so you HAVE to have a clue what you are doing before you tackle things, or at least thats my feeling. In general, there is enough knowledge on this board to do/rebuild just about anything you need by yourself. However, I would suggest you have some rudimentary knowledge of cars before attempting to tackle anything. I am on the short end of that stick right now. I wish I knew more, but I learn more and more every passing day. When I get suggestions on how to do things from here I feel infinitely better about it. The engine bay is pretty room actually, except for the back bank of cylinders, but everything is laid out well and very well engineered. Summary: If you have some basic automotive knowledge you could do ok with it, if not, learn, then do it. PDG
Anything beyond a belt change i'll leave to the pros. I don't want to end up with a lawn ornament. Even a belt change can destroy th engine if done wrong. I have consulted many on my first belt change and I am still doing it. I'm taking my sweet azz time with it to make sure it done right.
CIS is far easier to maintain, tune and diagnose than any 4 carb setup. I can teach in a day everything needed to be known about CIS. It takes years of experience to be able to keep the carb system of a 308 working correctly. I have worked on them for years and was always considered a good carburetor guy. I would not own a carbed V8 Ferrari.
Lots of truth to that! They were replacing my muffler and fine tuning rebuilt carbs, last I heard.... three weeks ago!! Haven't heard a word, since then!
1. Lack of garage space and a carlift. 2. No, the late 308's were some of the last Ferraris without microcircuitry 3. See #1 Bubba's comment about knowing when to quit and hand it to the pros is the best advice. A good first-name relationship with them is essential, whether it be dealer or indy shop.
Disclaimer - ** I am Not a 308/Ferrari owner but know people with them and do know the cars fairly well ** Isnt access really one of the major sticking points regarding service with this or any mid-engine car for that matter? Once you can get at things, suddenly its just an engine with many of the same parts as any other engine like water pumps, alternators, heads, etc, etc. Its not like working on a Mazda rotary where you'll really be lost! I just spent some time with Birdman(regular here) and he does a great job with his own work and doesnt consider himself the world greatest ferrari mechanic. He does have a lift which for some jobs is huge. Even so...good jackstands and a willingness to get in there is 75% of the battle. And, removing 20 unrelated items to get at the part that needs replacing is another PITA. Which brings me to another point: Many times the servicing gets so costly and time consuming is because the old "While you're in there you may as well replace xxxxxxx" really does apply. If you go through the hassle of removing a bunch of stuff to get a certian part....why not just do it "all" while you have the car half apart? I suspect there have been many good water pumps and other perfectly good parts thrown out because of this. But...you almost gotta do it! Bleh!
1. Nothing (I do have a lift) 2. Nothing, but you don't need it. 3. Don't buy a 308 if you worry about resale value. You won't drive it, work on it, touch it, or park it, or give it to your family to drive, or ...
Absolutely spot on. That goes for many other, if not all, sport cars, especially mid-engined ones... I still have very vivid memories of how a relatively minor service early on my ownership of a Maserati Merak became an out-of-the-car full engine overhaul including replacing various well-functioning parts (e.g. water pump and clutch) just to have it done! A learning experience? Yep, and an expensive one. Cheers, Gabriel
I see carburetors as a much more simple analog mechanism, but you have to know what the heck you are doing. So yes, they are a PIA if you don't know what's what. CIS is great if you don't want to tinker with any systems. I prefer the pedal response and greater torque of the carb cars. The torque curves between two properly setup cars is very different. A carb car has a nice flat torque curve while a CIS car is more peaky. Carbs are just tricky all around, but I prefer the benefit when they are right. Just me
And if you get it in right, and not mess with it, they tend to stay that way (unless of course you drive from LA to Colorado)
Yes, and there is a lot of benefit to a programmable EFI throttle body conversion, also... Regarding the DIY maintenance, unless you are planning to sell it to someone who absolutely won't buy a car unless it was 100% maintained by Carlo or Eugenio, or Luigi, you are far ahead doing it yourself, IF, and I say IF, you understand engine operation theory and have some sort of mechanical training or experience. Obviously you don't need much training to change an alternator and water pump vs knowing how to gap piston rings, or gauge bearing clearance or set cam timing, but changing an alternator can be a half to full day project, spend a Saturday or pay someone $800-$1200 in labor alone? Learn to do your own belts/water pump/valve clearance/hose changes and save yourself $4000 every time. Keep the car for 10-15 years and save $20K in labor, vs not being able to sell it for $10K more to the picky buyer than if your paid someone else to do it? I can do the math. Doug
Well stated, Doug. For many of us, self-service is a MUST to play this game. Otherwise you end up severly in the red(not the ferrari red either) with a car. You cant pay $25K for a car and then dump $10K a year into it and be happy. No way.
I would not own a carbed V8 Ferrari. Funny...I would never again own a FI 308 or 328 after experiencing a carb car. Different strokes, I guess.
Man, that must be some car...hope I get to see it in person some day. I'm still secretly jealous at the deal you got. It's great that you're enjoying it so much.
I think he meant "to maintain, tune and diagnose", sure it's good when it runs well. But it seems like you have shop to maintain your car so you don't have to worry about it. I have 2 carbs on my truck: one is in running in the engine, and the other is a spare in the back of the truck waiting to be swapped in...
One more thing about self maintainers is that they usually spend the extra time to do little detail things while working on the car. Unless paid for extra time, most mechanics do the job requested and then button it up. Many DIY types will clean the detail areas, paint or polish parts etc.... I have seen many cars with the recent $4000 service bill and the engine bay is still covered in grease, oil and dirt.
Rifledriver, I always appreciate your straight forward and experienced backed answers therefore I appeal to you directly. I am on the low end of the learning curve when it comes to F-cars. I have been de-bugging my 82 2V for the last year and have gotten it running great but not under cold start. I read your reply on CIS and hope you can suggest where I might be missing the point. Here is where I am at--------------- I have book spec pressures from the WUR (according to the graph in the quatro WSM) the system pressure is 5.2 bar I have replaced a failed AAV and accumulator. The filter in the WUR is clear and the inlet filter on the FD is clear. The problem----- it will fire instantly and die then I have to modulate the throttle to keep her running until temp. closes the cold start air valve and then all becomes normal and I can drive her and hot starts are no problem. Tom PS the WSM gives specs for the sensor plate and idle RPM and CO numbers; what is the proper sequence for these adj.?
My car is an 82 Mondial 8 but basically the same issues 1. No-- do most all my own work except tire mounting and balancing and front end alignments. Also farm out some machine work if needed. Generally the special tool can be bought or made cheaper than the labor and tool cost of farming it out. 2. No 3. As stated above a couple--three $4000 labor bills will buy a bunch of tools and parts for do overs if needed and even a used engine or tranny in the worst case scenario. I drive my car about 4-5000 miles a year so resale is not an issue anyway. I figure over the past 2-1/2 years and 12 000 miles With doing my own work I am cheaper with the classic Ferrari than I would have been if I had bought a New Hemi Dodge Charger RT Just on depreciation. And that is including maintenance costs and figuring worst case beater resale value of $12 000 on the Mondial vs clean trade in on the Dodge.
