all this BS from knowall buggeralls 1. Webber won 2. Webber was using the old chassis Sebrina cried about 3. Webber won with the old front wing 4. Sebrina is a slow learner them's the facts, the rest is BS speculation from armchair warriors one other very prominent fact, the race officials are USELESS !! FA gets a drive-through for bouncing over the kerb in front of the Kube ?? Why didn't they IMMEDIATELY say to give the place back ? thgey left doubt in FA's mind by delaying the decision and then by then the Kube had broken his car and the penalty was moot.
You've never raced, so you wouldn't know - but the FIA's job isn't to tell people what to do so that they don't get penalties. Their job is to enforce the rules. The team can ask Charlie for a ruling and Charlie can give an opinion, but he isn't a steward, so he can only give an opinion. To say that the FIA are useless because they didn't tell Alonso to give the place back is to have zero understanding of how F1 works.
+1 That said, the team as well as Alonso are idiots for not immediately conceding that position back. That conclusion is just wrong. Moretti has about as much understanding of F1 as you or I. So no need to stoop that low with an insult. Particularly after defending Schumacher's drive with the crowbar in Montreal as you did. The penalty on Alonso was simply idiotic because Kubica was already gone from the equation. Penalizing Alonso at that late point was just the FIA making a public statement towards Senor Alonso for criticizing them after Valencia.
I don't fault Alonso for trying... but when you are 4-wheels off, it's obvious what you do from there. What about the conclusion is wrong? It is entirely right. Do you feel the FIA should be telling people what to do so that they won't penalize them? No governing body works like that and they never have. To do so would be a clear violation of their entire purpose. They are there as impartial judges. To tell specific competitors what to do in order to avoid penalty is completely outside of their role. Anyone who suggests that should be their role has zero understanding of F1. They are judges, not coaches. In Moretti's case, he either doesn't understand that or chooses to put it aside for the purposes of complaining about the result. Anyone would know that if you do what Alonso did, you give the position back. As soon as he did it, everyone jumped on the illegality of it. So the penalty was no big surprise. And there is no scenario at all under which the governing body should contact Ferrari to let them know what to do to avoid a penalty. And once again - penalties are not variable based on how they affect a competitor. I don't get why people think they ever would or should be. If you don't stop to make your tire change, it's not OK as long as you finished last. It's not OK to jump the start if you get into a crash in turn 1 and have to come in to get your wing change. And it's not OK to pass someone by cutting a corner if they later crash out. This is basic stuff.
I can't disagree with any of that. Sometimes folks read too much into simple things. Either that or everyone is suffering from World Cup withdrawal and have got a bit cranky
Yes it is and Alonso and the team are idiots for not giving the position back. But penalizing Alonso AFTER Kubica has already left the race is not a penalty, but just revenge for Valencia. Or blatant incompetence for not coming up with it earlier. In fact I'm even wondering whether this wasn't a late revenge foul by Mansell for his departure from Ferrari? Just as Hill got a chance to piss on Schumacher in Monaco.
I thought it was pretty funny the way the guys commentated it in the booth. They all agreed Alonso should have given the place back at first. Then when Kubica retired, Matchett said something about how now it's all or nothing with the stewards. When the SC came out, Hobbs suggested this was going to be a really harsh penalty (in effect) due to the SC. They all agreed. I agree too. Buxton obviously got tired of listening to it and laid down the law - "it's clear as day guys - in the rule book, you can't gain an advantage using anything other than the designated track". He hit the nail on the head. The rest of them said nothing more - Buxton's absolute clarity of vision on the matter was indisputable. It really doesn't get any simpler.
Now you're just being silly As for Mansell, the former drivers are simply advisors - they are not authoratative. So Mansell could suggest whatever he likes, but to suggest he made the decision (as was said, IIRC in the Italian press) is clearly just whining and nothing more - no substance at all there. As for it being revenge for Valencia. How would the stewards know an SC was coming? That is Charlies call. So this was a conspiracy between Charlie and the stewards to get back at Alonso for what he said? That's too "out there" for my to buy. There is no way to predict every possible permutation of what may happen when rules are applied. So there are two options. The rule is the rule, and the penalty is the penalty (what we have now and in every sport I can think of), or we give the stewards leeway to apply any penalty they feel is appropriate. Since every human being is biased in some regard, I am most certainly NOT in favor of the latter. I doubt most are. So, "the rule is the rule and the penalty is the penalty" seems more than fair to me. There will be cases where it is unfair in it's effect - either too strong or too light - but that is the system we have. The penalty for gaining advantage by going off the track is a drive through. End of story.
The penalty is for Alonso gaining an advantage not for disadvantaging Kubica. It does not mater what happened to Kubica after Alonso gained that advantage. Once past Kubica Alsono was able to go faster on the track and gained further advantage every lap after the illegal pass. The rule is very simple.
Have to agree with SRTMike here, you are stretching it ... Hill versus MS, yeah I would if I was Hill but I think Hill has more class than I ... but Mansell versus Ferrari, don't think so. Moving from Ferrari to Williams is why Mansell won a WDC ... if he had stayed at Ferrari he would never have climbed that mountain. Pete
Exactly. The rule does not say, "If a driver gains a position by driving off track, he needs to give it back...unless the driver he passed goes out of the race, the he can hold his position." Alex
Should have made him give up the position to the next car he legally passed. Difficult to believe it took the stewards an insurmountable amount of time to come to a conclusion, even Fred wanted to know if it was legal immediately after he committed the offence. Ridiculous.
Fred does not know the rules? Really? The guys in the Ferrari pits don't know the rules? This was EPIC FAIL no excuse, no conspiracy outside of the team...
BTW I am not 100% sure (only 99.9%) but I don't think that was an option for the stewards. They gave the drive through penalty which is the normal corse of action.
Shirley to God (knew you'd all appreciate that) they could have made an early call and saved everyone the expense of looking like first time spectators. It wasn't a clear cut case by my eye but when Fred ASKED for a ruling, they should have given him him one, no or yes. The delay and subsequent penalty (after the SC) was beyond moronic. Any driver placed in a similar situation would rather the ruling been called instantly. Charlie needs a replacement with (eye) balls .
I think you are kidding but here you go. Here is a video of the pass. http://gallery.me.com/patrickdoneill#100579/trim.E9ehov You don't ask for a ruling. You give the position back as fast as possible so that you can pass him again as soon as possible and get on down the road.
Seems I was a tad harsh on Charles as it was Stefano who decided to ignore his advice thrice. No wonder Fred asked for silence after the Safety Car shuffle.
